Chinese semiconductor industry

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ansy1968

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The West has no viable alternative strategies other than conforming to a multipolar world. The current "Rules Based Order" is basically the end product of the previous colonial imperialist system that placed Anglo-Americans at the top followed by the West & Central Europeans below them. This system worked to their favor as long as they could maintain the commanding heights of the world economy, technology and military. They do this through patent laws, international financial parasitism, and pervasive Harvard MBA style comparative advantage trade agreements that straight-jacket new comers. The problem now is that China is the first country ever to be able to overcome all these obstacles. China is close to becoming a true full spectrum peer competitor in the near horizon. Even the Soviet Union was never a full spectrum peer competitor. China can and will take over the commanding heights if the status quo continues much longer. It is probably going to pass America in gross scientific output sometime between 2023-2025 and eventually probably surpass the entire OECD combined.

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Yup 2025 keep appearing as the date of near parity, as both the engine and semiconductor vulnerability will be addressed.

Semiconductors are the gateway technology to the other lynchpin technologies of the commanding heights. Literally everything in the modern world you can think of. If the American sanctions successfully hold China back in this field, it would actually contain China for a long time. However, a long time isn't forever! Sooner or later, it would break through. The idiocy of this policy is that what should have been a long time is turning out to be a lot sooner than expected. This is like kicking yourself in the head and blaming the pain on the guy you were actually trying to kick.
When you see how the CCP reacted when Trump launch the trade war it was as IF they are prepared and they were, I advised you look and research the 13th 5 year plan from 2016 to 2020 and the 01 and 02 Special project.
Chinese officials have publicly announced the 14nm process being ready for commercialization but I haven't seen the same for 7nm. Even if 7nm is commercially viable by 2024, I think it would make more sense to be packaging 14nm 2.5/3D. Supposedly, they are working on improving yields but there are issues related to the photoresists, or possibly to the light sources. Nobody really knows because it's all rumors on the Chinese Internet.
Well first thing first welcome to the forum and I hope you enjoy your stay as I do especially on this thread where I learned a lot from our esteem members. To know the progress of domestic 14nm just watch what Huawei is doing and planning to do since they were heavily sanction by the US . IF the report is to be believed they will be launching HUAWEI P60 rumoured to pack 14nm 3D Kirin 9100 SoC, coming in 2023. We know Huawei invested a FAB in collaboration with ICRD and SMIC was prevented to supply them with Chips, so in all indication the domestic 14nm line is in operation and is producing the chip required for the eventual launching of the said phone thus the motto the Return of the King.

And regarding 7nm please tune in what @olalavn @WTAN and @PopularScience post and it's in the realm of possibility after all TSMC first generation of 7nm was produce using ASML 1980i DUVL not the latest and it is claimed that SMEE SSA800 is of the same caliber of performance and spec.
 

Jianguo

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how do you think semiconductor equipment talks to EDA files? I don't know. My understanding is that the EAD file output is used for a mask set. The equipment does not talks directly to the EDA files.
I'm not sure but considering that America basically controls the world semicon supply chain indirectly, I'd imagine they could embed something along the way since they have control of the entire supply chain. If the ability to do it didn't exist, they would create that ability to make that link somewhere along the manufacturing process to be tripwired.

So, if any EDA design was generated from any EDA software version beyond say the date the Americans sanctioned their EDA softwares, then from that software version, the generated EDIF files could embed some innocuous useless extra something that the next link in the supply chain would recognize. Such EDIF files sent to any non-China mask maker would tip them off and they could subsequently refuse to support creations from pirated EDA. Maybe even provide the masks, but with an extra "something" so that the next link in the chain does something unwanted.
 

FairAndUnbiased

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I'm not sure but considering that America basically controls the world semicon supply chain indirectly, I'd imagine they could embed something along the way since they have control of the entire supply chain. If the ability to do it didn't exist, they would create that ability to make that link somewhere along the manufacturing process to be tripwired.

So, if any EDA design was generated from any EDA software version beyond say the date the Americans sanctioned their EDA softwares, then from that software version, the generated EDIF files could embed some innocuous useless extra something that the next link in the supply chain would recognize. Such EDIF files sent to any non-China mask maker would tip them off and they could subsequently refuse to support creations from pirated EDA. Maybe even provide the masks, but with an extra "something" so that the next link in the chain does something unwanted.
so then the only problem will be in the photomasks. everything else is not a problem because it's disconnected from EDA file output.
 

Jianguo

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so then the only problem will be in the photomasks. everything else is not a problem because it's disconnected from EDA file output.
What you say sounds about right. I just don't trust the Americans at all and would be surprised if they haven't already approached every single non-Chinese mask maker and have them work together to undermine China. My guess is, they are counting on China's design houses pirating EDA software and then damaging them somehow with some variation of what I said earlier. We always need to remind ourselves that America is the country that forced all their large technology companies to embed backdoors into their equipment and softwares.
 

FairAndUnbiased

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What you say sounds about right. I just don't trust the Americans at all and would be surprised if they haven't already approached every single non-Chinese mask maker and have them work together to undermine China. My guess is, they are counting on China's design houses pirating EDA software and then damaging them somehow with some variation of what I said earlier. We always need to remind ourselves that America is the country that forced all their large technology companies to embed backdoors into their equipment and softwares.
based on my understanding, many fabs have their in house mask service.

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the big problem could be in the prebuilt IP cores that some EDA offers. for instance, they can add a USB functionality module to a chip, but is it all they're adding? you can design the USB functionality yourself. but then that costs huge amounts of time and money.
 

PopularScience

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based on my understanding, many fabs have their in house mask service.

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the big problem could be in the prebuilt IP cores that some EDA offers. for instance, they can add a USB functionality module to a chip, but is it all they're adding? you can design the USB functionality yourself. but then that costs huge amounts of time and money.
They can source the IP from VeriSilicon, the domestic IP provider.

e76f-iyaiihm4134279.jpg
 

henrik

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Registered Member
Yup 2025 keep appearing as the date of near parity, as both the engine and semiconductor vulnerability will be addressed.


When you see how the CCP reacted when Trump launch the trade war it was as IF they are prepared and they were, I advised you look and research the 13th 5 year plan from 2016 to 2020 and the 01 and 02 Special project.

Well first thing first welcome to the forum and I hope you enjoy your stay as I do especially on this thread where I learned a lot from our esteem members. To know the progress of domestic 14nm just watch what Huawei is doing and planning to do since they were heavily sanction by the US . IF the report is to be believed they will be launching HUAWEI P60 rumoured to pack 14nm 3D Kirin 9100 SoC, coming in 2023. We know Huawei invested a FAB in collaboration with ICRD and SMIC was prevented to supply them with Chips, so in all indication the domestic 14nm line is in operation and is producing the chip required for the eventual launching of the said phone thus the motto the Return of the King.

And regarding 7nm please tune in what @olalavn @WTAN and @PopularScience post and it's in the realm of possibility after all TSMC first generation of 7nm was produce using ASML 1980i DUVL not the latest and it is claimed that SMEE SSA800 is of the same caliber of performance and spec.
So huawei has the confidence in releasing the P60 with full 5G support in 2023?
 

ansy1968

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So huawei has the confidence in releasing the P60 with full 5G support in 2023?
They have found a solution regarding their RF problem.

Radio frequency for phones: Huawei doesn’t need U.S.​


Donald Trump and others in D.C. are completely certain Huawei needs parts from America. That’s total hubris. Huawei designs its own custom chips for mobile, led by the Kirin 980 & 990. Screens, power supplies, and just about everything are available outside the US.
The one major exception – until now – was RF (radio frequency) parts. 5G phones must support over two dozen frequency bands. They must filter out unwanted signals, perform error correction, and amplify what often will be very weak signals, all at very high 5G speeds.
The problem is mostly solved. The top of the line Mate 30 only requires 2 US parts. Huawei and suppliers like Murata Japan will soon be able to replace those as well. Chinese universities and military suppliers already produce state of the art chips.
Skyworks, Qorvo, Qualcomm, and Broadcom, $200B of US companies, had been dominant. They will inevitably lose some orders. If the Huawei blockade becomes permanent or other Chinese phone companies switch to alternate suppliers, these companies will suffer. See
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Susquehanna analyst Christopher Rolland reports, “After discussions with Huawei, we believe the company has found alternatives to most U.S. RF solutions, … There is a Chinese teardown of the Mate 30 5G making its rounds and garnering a lot of attention in the handset supply chain. In conclusion, the flagship handset uses very few American RF components (perhaps just a few QRVO and SWKS parts in the antenna tuning switch). To address 5G, the handset reportedly utilizes a Murata FEM. To address 4G, the handset reportedly utilizes a combination of both Murata and HiSilicon! While there is some debate about the components in the HiSilicon FEM, and where HiSilcon actually has the technical capabilities to do their own filtering, the part still garners its marking. We believe HiSilicon has been manufacturing a design of their own power amplifiers through Win Semi for some time now, but the full FEM would represent an increase in capabilities.”
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“We expect China to be the biggest 5G smartphone market next year, but the trade war is likely to exclude US RF suppliers,” according to a research note from KeyBanc. “Feedback from Asia indicates Huawei plans to ship 100M 5G smartphones in 2020, which would represent over one third of the company’s shipments. With the U.S. entity ban list, we believe Huawei has most aggressively moved to non-U.S. sources of supply for RF, while other OEMs such as Oppo/Vivo and Xiaomi have also taken measures to increasingly source from non U.S.-suppliers, but to a more moderate shift as compared to Huawei. On the modem front, Huawei will use its internal HiSilicon-based Kirin 5G modem, while other Chinese OEMs are expected to use Mediatek’s 5G modem, which is expected to be ready by the end of the year.”
The trade war is also accelerating Huawei’s push towards internal ASICs and away from third-party FPGAs, according to KeyBanc. “Feedback from Asia indicates Huawei has been able to redesign its 5G base station in the baseband and the radio head or active antenna unit (AAU) to minimize the use of FPGAs. In some instances, we believe Huawei will only require the use of one XLNX FPGA in its base station,” according to the firm. “Huawei (is) aggressively transitioning its 5G base station platforms away from XLNX and toward HiSilicon ASICs
 

Weaasel

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Registered Member
Any news about lithography?
I see that you are just hatched... You will need to be doing much research going back a few years, but this thread and this forum generallu is the right thread to do it. Search type "DUV", "EUV", "SSMB", "steady state microbunching", "nanoimprint lithography", "ASML", "SMEE", "Nikon", "Canon" . These will give you the best search results.
 
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