Chinese semiconductor industry

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ZeEa5KPul

Colonel
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The ASML page seems a bit light on comparable specs, but let's take Gigaphoton, a supposed competitor to Cymer.
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Gigaphoton lasers have been integrated into at least a single lithography system, and I said that the Russian laser could be integrated onto a Chinese lithography system.

Wavelength193 nm
Average Output45 W
Pulse Energy11.25 mj
Repetition Rate4,000 Hz
Bandwidth (FWHM)0.2 pm
Bandwidth (E95)0.5 pm

Pulse repetition: same as Russian
Pulse energy: 1/2 Russian
Average output: 1/2 Russian

Bandwidth: Russian laser is 17-20 ns pulse duration,
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, we call λ = 193 nm, c = 3×10^17 nm/s, t = 20*10^-9 s, Δλ = 0.006 pm. So achieving a 0.2 pm bandwidth is nowhere near the physical limit and is plausible. They do not give this spec but it is possible to see that if they claimed a 0.2 pm bandwidth as well, it wouldn't be bullshit.

So what's the problem with my statement? I never said it was comparable to Cymer, I didn't have enough data, I just invited the viewer to compare some basic specs. I can say it is comparable to Gigaphoton though, and Gigaphoton is a competitor of Cymer, so yes, by definition of comparable, the Russian laser is comparable to Cymer.
The effort is appreciated, but you could have just responded to
Could you elaborate how you arrive at that conclusion?
with a "no". It would have put a troll in his place and given us a chuckle.
 

hvpc

Junior Member
Registered Member
The ASML page seems a bit light on comparable specs, but let's take Gigaphoton, a supposed competitor to Cymer.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Gigaphoton lasers have been integrated into at least a single lithography system, and I said that the Russian laser could be integrated onto a Chinese lithography system.

Wavelength193 nm
Average Output45 W
Pulse Energy11.25 mj
Repetition Rate4,000 Hz
Bandwidth (FWHM)0.2 pm
Bandwidth (E95)0.5 pm

Pulse repetition: same as Russian
Pulse energy: 1/2 Russian
Average output: 1/2 Russian

Bandwidth: Russian laser is 17-20 ns pulse duration,
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
, we call λ = 193 nm, c = 3×10^17 nm/s, t = 20*10^-9 s, Δλ = 0.006 pm. So achieving a 0.2 pm bandwidth is nowhere near the physical limit and is plausible. They do not give this spec but it is possible to see that if they claimed a 0.2 pm bandwidth as well, it wouldn't be bullshit.

So what's the problem with my statement? I never said it was comparable to Cymer, I didn't have enough data, I just invited the viewer to compare some basic specs. I can say it is comparable to Gigaphoton though, and Gigaphoton is a competitor of Cymer, so yes, by definition of comparable, the Russian laser is comparable to Cymer.
The Russian laser spec are not operating metric that appears to be independent of one another. What sets Cymer and Gigaphoton apart from everyone is the laser delivery stability and repeatability along with the 99.5% uptime.

Looking at max pulse energy, max frequency, & power doesn't provide a good view if it's good enough to dispose Cymer/Gigaphoton. Over the years I've seen a few newcomers that come up with similar and even better basic specs than Cymer/Gigaphton, but none was able to pass the qualification. Looking at Russian laser spec, can't say they will not be good enough, but we could infer it to be likely to be like those that come before them.

Max laser performance is not as important as highly repeatable performance metrics. And note, max 4KHz with max 20mJ laser does not yield 100W power. It's more important to maintain the pulse energy stable and have a constant pulse frequency, narrow bandwidth, and highly repeatable, and high uptime.

So, can't conclusively gauge if this Russian laser is good enough with spec provided, that's why ask for you to share how you are able to reach a conclusion. (was not challenging you, I was truly curious how you were able to reach your assessment).
 
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tokenanalyst

Brigadier
Registered Member
Getting a bit more technical wouldn't hurt anyone. There may be some operational technical differences because this is clearly marketed towards maskless lithography systems but this dudes look pretty capable of easily make Arf lasers for lithography scanners, they probably don't do it because there is not such market in Russia but China is a potential huge market for them if they put some effort into it.

1658203019145.png
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
Boy, I must've had a pretty different EE experience than you! Logic and Microprocessor classes were considered the hardest at my college, but I aced both. OTOH I barely passed quantum mechanics class and didn't do so hot in my solid state class either. I just couldn't visualize quantum physics, it was wholly abstract to me. Signal processing was also very abstract to me, I did well in the class but I had great trouble visualizing Fourier transforms. I ended up going into medicine so none of it really mattered, but just thinking about quantum mechanics and signal processing brings back bad memories!
I did not do an EE degree, my degree was in applied physics. I struggled hard and got a low grade in a "electronics for scientists" class which was supposedly a baby version of the easiest intro EE class (circuits) lmao. I never had to do signals, controls, logic, etc. instead I got to do stuff like classical mechanics, thermodynamics and quantum mechanics.

I knew my math and programming was not strong enough for traditional physics jobs (computational simulation crap) or anything related to electronics, so I did chemistry/materials electives, did alot of experimental research, went to grad school, did more experimental research, went through some jobs in semiconductor and chemical industries, ended up in semiconductor equipment.

edit* remove a few details.
 
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ZeEa5KPul

Colonel
Registered Member
I did not do an EE degree, my degree was in applied physics. I struggled hard and got a low grade in a "electronics for scientists" class which was supposedly a baby version of the easiest intro EE class (circuits) lmao. I never had to do signals, controls, logic, etc. instead I got to do stuff like classical mechanics, thermodynamics and quantum mechanics.

I knew my math and programming was not strong enough for traditional physics jobs (computational simulation crap) or anything related to electronics, so I did chemistry/materials electives, did alot of experimental research, went to grad school, did more experimental research in solar cells, went through some jobs in semiconductor and chemical industries, ended up in semiconductor equipment.
Was the person teaching it any good? I've often found that can make a bigger difference than the intrinsic difficulty of the material.
 

tokenanalyst

Brigadier
Registered Member
The ASML page seems a bit light on comparable specs, but let's take Gigaphoton, a supposed competitor to Cymer.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Gigaphoton lasers have been integrated into at least a single lithography system, and I said that the Russian laser could be integrated onto a Chinese lithography system.

Wavelength193 nm
Average Output45 W
Pulse Energy11.25 mj
Repetition Rate4,000 Hz
Bandwidth (FWHM)0.2 pm
Bandwidth (E95)0.5 pm

Pulse repetition: same as Russian
Pulse energy: 1/2 Russian
Average output: 1/2 Russian

Bandwidth: Russian laser is 17-20 ns pulse duration,
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
, we call λ = 193 nm, c = 3×10^17 nm/s, t = 20*10^-9 s, Δλ = 0.006 pm. So achieving a 0.2 pm bandwidth is nowhere near the physical limit and is plausible. They do not give this spec but it is possible to see that if they claimed a 0.2 pm bandwidth as well, it wouldn't be bullshit.

So what's the problem with my statement? I never said it was comparable to Cymer, I didn't have enough data, I just invited the viewer to compare some basic specs. I can say it is comparable to Gigaphoton though, and Gigaphoton is a competitor of Cymer, so yes, by definition of comparable, the Russian laser is comparable to Cymer.
the Bandwidth is 0.3pm.

1658203602382.png
 

pmc

Major
Registered Member

vincent

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Was the person teaching it any good? I've often found that can make a bigger difference than the intrinsic difficulty of the material.
My second year power system professor spoke in a monotone the entire time and i fell asleep in almost every lecture (i sat in the front row many times too, he didn’t call me out), but i passed the course anyways.
 

hvpc

Junior Member
Registered Member
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It reminds me of this Chinese company that marketed the first KrF maskless system I've ever seen.

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View attachment 93494
@tokenanalyst, do you know what is the application of this KrF maskless system you found? I looked at their website and can't really tell what the Ath3000M is for (for FE IC? for MEM?).

Also, why does third line item mean? I looked at the website, it says "Supported Substrate" and "6" mask".

Is item#3 mean this system uses 6" mask? I thought this system is a maskless writer?

Or is this system a direct write system for 6" mask?

I'm a bit confused. Could you help clarify?
 
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