Chinese semiconductor industry

BlackWindMnt said:

Dam so China can now take on Samsung and Sony in the mobile photo sensor sector?

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Hyperspectral imager is a high end and specialized chip for scientific and military imaging applications like satellites, telescopes, etc. It is like an imaging spectrometer that can tell you chemical composition and image simultaneously.

These cost thousands of dollars.

Appix said:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518473722298085377

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These analyses are of little value. Their definition of the national origin of components is deeply flawed. For instance in 2020 they had Hisilicon as a "Chinese" component, but we now know that Hilsilicon chips could only be manufactured using semiconductor equipment supply controlled by the U.S. Similarly, many so-called Japanese, Korean or Chinese components ultimately derive from U.S. origin technology. Furthermore Japanese and Korean technology is effectively controlled by the U.S. due to those countries' subservience to Washington.

If you actually did an analysis of which components belong to each country based on the control that a country's political leaders have over the technology, U.S. components would probably account for 99%.

gadgetcool5 said:

These analyses are of little value. Their definition of the national origin of components is deeply flawed. For instance in 2020 they had Hisilicon as a "Chinese" component, but we now know that Hilsilicon chips could only be manufactured using semiconductor equipment supply controlled by the U.S. Similarly, many so-called Japanese, Korean or Chinese components ultimately derive from U.S. origin technology. Furthermore Japanese and Korean technology is effectively controlled by the U.S. due to those countries' subservience to Washington.

If you actually did an analysis of which components belong to each country based on the control that a country's political leaders have over the technology, U.S. components would probably account for 99%.

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Citation please? This isn't the place for nationalist chest thumping. These are bold claims with specific numbers attached so that 99% claim should be extensively cited.

european_guy said:

Many times in life you have to know how to "make the best of a bad situation" (in European languages we have different way of saying regarding this concept, this is the English one). I'm quite confident there is something similar also in Chinese.

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It's a good move to stay in business in the short term. But in the future when taking the geopolitical conflicts into account, it'll be safer to switch to using domestic parts. Hopefully, the senior management is aware of these risks and have contingency plans in place..

Appix said:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518473722298085377

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It would be very dangerous for Honor not to buy American semiconductors. But it's ok for Honor to focus on deAmericanising the supply chains for other components, while Huawei, Xiaomi and BBK all work on various types of semiconductors.

escobar said:

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Wasn't the point of Huawei selling their smartphone brand to allow it to continue do business with Qualcomm and others?
So that is not surprising at all.

It was just a way to cash out on a quick buck and get rid of an otherwise dying business.
And they can still sell smartphones under Huawei brand. Probably for higher price than Honor would because of consumer brand loyalty.
What I dislike is that if what we wanted was another user of US chips there are plenty of those in the market already.
They did not even choose a MediaTek chip and had to go for Qualcomm.

gadgetcool5 said:

Furthermore Japanese and Korean technology is effectively controlled by the U.S. due to those countries' subservience to Washington.

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No strictly necessary, after ban on Jinhua I heard this story on how Tokyo Electron (TEL) was knocking door to door in China telling fabs how unreliable American chipmaking tech was and why they should buy from them instead. That is the reason why the U.S. hasn't put a full embargo on chip making technology on China is because their allies are not necessary on the same page on what should be restricted. So if the U.S. restrict selling but other countries don't and with China able to make their own equipment, Americans equipment companies could lose big.

Yep. The Japanese tool industry has had pretty slim pickings now that their semi sector is mostly dying. I think the major customer for their lithography companies was Intel. But now that Intel is going to go into EUV they are probably going to switch to ASML too. Tokyo Electron is the main competitor to Applied Materials. I think it would have been in the Chinese industry's interests to break US monopolies as much as possible. I am not saying everyone had to buy Tokyo Electron equipment but at least some companies should have done it.
Feeding Micron and Qualcomm is just another mistake. The less these monopolies are fed, the less power they will have to impose a trade ban on China. Or any other country for that matter.

The US vulture capitalists are still circling over Toshiba trying to kill it totally. Toshiba held a huge chunk of the storage market. Hard disks and flash memory. Well, or did until they spun off the flash memory division as Kioxia. Now it is held by US vulture capitalist company Bain Capital.

Here is @Oldschool point of view, I think he and the rest of us share the same opinion especially regarding 3nm chips and lower nodes. TSMC had that luxury cause it have too, being the leader in the field they need to develop new product to stay ahead of the competition and they have the pricing power being an innovative company. BUT the pie is shrinking as @Oldschool had stated Who can Afford it.

The Russian and Ukraine war changed almost everything. It marks the end of globalization
The need for EUV drastically reduced. Globally people are hurting from big inflation, with soaring energy price and food price. People will not upgrade their phones and computers. Those are much lower priority than energy and food,
EV cars is the name of game, majority of chips are power electronics, IGBT, SiC and MCU, low and medium ended semiconductor . Last year, toyota only has 1% in the EV the market. 15 years from now, the name of toyota and honda will fade in history as japan are fallen way behind in the EV race. By 2030, many places will ban the sale of new gasoline cars.
Japan mostly likely be fallen and same with Germany, Both lacking in EV cars tech. Tesla won't use Panasonic battery any longer. They will make their own. CATL, LG, BYD batteries are dominant globally.
The western market will shrink drastically for the need of high end semiconductor. TSMC having 6 chip plants for 5nm are waste of money. Who can absorb all those.
DUV + chip stacking packaging tech is more than enough to carry on... Now EUV seems like a luxury