Chinese semiconductor industry
- Thread starter Hendrik_2000
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It appears that they're rather quick to pick up the latest tech development in a faraway place.
I totally agree here.
In 2021, China was the third largest partner for EU exports of goods (10.2 %) and the largest partner for EU imports of goods (22.4 %).
EU is a very good market for China's advanced equipment:
No offense but I feel this is a delusional take on Europe.
The Europeans have ultimately gone on board to the American side with every major decision regarding China, whether it's ASML or Huawei or the Comprehensive Agreement on Investment or Xinjiang sanctions or the whole Two Michaels controversy, or even labelling China as a systemic competitor.
There hasn't been a single major area where the EU has said no to the US. Not to mention NATO.
And that was before the whole Russia thing which will drive the EU even closer to the US. There's no evidence at this point that the EU even sees itself as an independent geopolitical entity of the US. China needs to realize that no matter what happens, it cannot count on Europe. It may not be its choice whether or not the European market is open to it in the future.
EU never saw itself as an independent geopolitical entity, at least not in the last 80 years.
But EU sees itself as a more or less open market, maybe more open than China market in some cases, and the numbers that I have posted in my previous post, prove it.
they made a previous video on the argument, the channel is very much pc gaming oriented, so they are very interested in consumer GPU. They are appaled by the speed of development of a proprietary gpu architecture by china companies. Very promising
That's spot on. Also don't forget the EU-US Technological Council that is set up in order to block Chinese Tech advancement. Anyone who still believes that EU is "neutral" has probably not kept to to date with news for the past years.
In fact, forget Huawei, the big thing that showed the EU had taken US' side, was them accepting the US ASML ban on selling advanced IC equipment to China.
The wife says I am the dumbest person in the room. There is only two in the room. Guess that makes sense. But from time to time she likes to listen to some economic stuff.
That is what I always believed they meant, when CCP wanted 75% of chip production done inside China for what they need to use. If they were able to buy a bunch of ASML machines, then import the chemicals from Japan, and other raw materials from Russia, then hire a few engineers from Taiwan, that does not seem like what they want to accomplish, because if they did it that way, the CCP would make China IC be the like the UAE where everything comes from abroad.
If the J-20 is all domestic including the engines, the space program all domestic idea most of it now or soon, that is what Chinese IC will naturally gravitate to.
If people outside of China do not believe it, that is not China's problem.
The problem for China was this war between Russia and Ukraine. This geopolitical event, accelerates all timelines.
I do not even consider the ASML business to be a big deal. Since the light source is made in the US anyway so it would likely still be sanctioned. To me the issue was a whole slew of their initiatives. From a lack of concerted push back against the Huawei sanctions, to even worse stances like not signing the trade deal with China or doing stupid sanctions with regards to Xinjiang.
There is nothing the Dutch/ASML could've really done in that case. ASML would gladly sell China its EUV if critical supplies weren't sourced from China. Again, EU is currently powerless in this semiconductor war due to insufficient investment in this area.
You are probably overly pessimistic about EU/US cooperation. After all, we just had a president that wanted to break up with EU and there is a good chance he will be president again in 3 years. Just 4 years ago, Trump had royally pissed off the Europeans, who were turning to China for more cooperation everywhere. Right now, there is a warming of EU/US relationship due to the Russian scare. In a couple of years, EU countries could very well have a "Russian fatigue" from years of sanction fueled inflation. COVID will be far away from people's mind. And a certain popular figure in America is talking about "America first" on the campaign trail again.
As China develops, there is no reason China cannot sell IC products to Europe just as it has been selling other advanced technology (like NEV) to Europe. Remember, successfully developing semiconductor supply chain gives China power. Only with power, can they dictate the terms at which they engage other parties. Europe may prefer to deal with US, but it will also deal with China if China can offer them what they need.
Let's put it this way, if the Europeans cannot do anything more than adding the occasional anti-dumping tariffs on Chinese new energy exports to Europe (which actually have large European competitors), what makes you think they'd be able to stop China from exporting semiconductor related product? China just needs to develop technologically. Everything else will follow.
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