Chinese semiconductor industry
- Thread starter Hendrik_2000
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I can’t say for sure because my experience is mostly with patterning and process control. But, I do believe it’s much easier to close the gap with the west in etching and deposition. So, I see indigenous etch, deposition, clean, & ion deposition, etc at a production ready level in a few years as highly feasible. If these companies are focused and continue to execute then I would go out on a limb and say they would be ready for 28nm by 2025. But that’s just my opinion. Maybe other expert in these areas could chime in and provide more solid assessment.
On your second question, I’m even less qualified to answer. But, smartphone is what’s driving the technology and the massive profit at tsmc. Chip performance, ultra low power consumption, small form factor are some key performance index that keep pushing tsmc to the brink of their capability. Without access to leading edge technology it’ll be hard for Huawei to come up with new/more powerful Kirin to compete with Apple.
BUT, Huawei has proven to be a world class tech conglomerate. I personally would not write them off just yet.
Thank you very much. My hope was for a de-americanised production line at SMIC so that the Kirin chips can be kept alive even though few generations behind TSMV
I think it’s better to decouple the two.
Building up indigenous WFE ecosystem is to get into the game starting 28nm and try to catch up to established players. We are years behind to be able to compete beck on neck in the critical areas such as litho, inspection, and resists…oh also fab integration capability, which is also difficult.
For Huawei, we should expect to limit them to using indigenous equipments. If SMIC can come up with high yielding 5nm capability, Huawei should definitely utilize it to continue their Kirin line of chips. But, that’s if SMIC would be willing to take on their orders.
I’m almost afraid to give my opinion on this, it may not be what people want to hear.
I will say this, again, we shouldn’t trivialize this as something as simple as having all the components ready and being able to integrate them into a scanner. Having something that could be expose a wafer is just the tip of the iceberg. Even if a mass production EUV system is ready, no one can use it to build <7nm chips right away. I’m guessing >90% of people here do not realize what it take to setup a EUV process in the fab. Implementing this system is not a plug-n-play like when transitioning from KrF to ArF or ArF to ArFi. So we are many years behind on using EUV to make chips.
Someone posted or referenced a YouTube video from Asianometry. He didn’t have all the detailed information right, but what he said is roughly right.
This what ASML CEO had said about the repercussion of US sanction and how long before China catches up…I lean towards his view:
I’m sorry if what I said disappoints or offends you. But right or wrong, m this is my honest opinion. I think you will find many actual litho experts in Chinese semiconductor space with similar assessments.
I don't. Name them.
I meant to say “shouldn’t expect to limit them to use indigenous equipments”
Sorry for the typo.
Unless US removes the sanctions on Huawei, I doubt we'll see SMIC supplying high end chips to Huawei. Not worth the risk of getting cut off from western equipment which still remains the primary source of SMIC's chips
Could it be possible for China to set up an independent fab (using domestic equipment once it's ready) for Huawei by transferring knowhow from SMIC? Though that'll likely not be high end.
Could it be possible for China to set up an independent fab (using domestic equipment once it's ready) for Huawei by transferring knowhow from SMIC? Though that'll likely not be high end.
As long as it does not use American equipment from Lam, Amat and Kla Tencor. Hopefully Smic can use the latest Asml DUV litho with Gigaphoton light source and replace American equipment with Japanese and Korean ones. If 5nm can be achieved in this way than Huawei has a bright future.
I heard from my contact that ICRD in Jiading had taken delivery of a NXT1980. Not installed yet. We think it’s to help: 1. To help qualify and benchmark SMEE immersion; 2. Help provide wafers to help with optimization and qualification of other fab equipments.
These guys are also suppose to develop 14nm process. So, if not SMIC, perhaps Huawei could eventually go through ICRD jiading’s small wafer capacity. That would be an upside in despite of the SMIC/sanction situation.
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