Chinese semiconductor industry

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56860

56860

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Hadoren said:
I feel that China should set up a domestic competitor to SMEE.

My disquieting fear is that SMEE becomes another COMAC. Endless delays, and the final product never materialises.

If you have domestic competition, the end result is usually better.
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COMAC is not as urgent as SMEE. Breaking the Boeing/Airbus duopoly is nice. Semiconductor independence is necessary.
 
Blitzo

Blitzo

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Hadoren said:
I feel that China should set up a domestic competitor to SMEE.

My disquieting fear is that SMEE becomes another COMAC. Endless delays, and the final product never materialises.

If you have domestic competition, the end result is usually better.
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That is implying that the key determinant of success for industries like civil airliners or semiconductor equipment is "competition" rather than "accumulated technology and competence".

Competition is only useful if you have sufficient technology and competence in the overall industry to circulate in the first place.
 
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ansy1968

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Hadoren said:
I feel that China should set up a domestic competitor to SMEE.

My disquieting fear is that SMEE becomes another COMAC. Endless delays, and the final product never materialises.

If you have domestic competition, the end result is usually better.
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@Hadoren Bro I thought CETC is another domestic competitor, from what I gather they both source their components and spare parts from the same supplier (like RS laser). IF that is the case there is a need to established multiple supply chain companies like they did in areas like the Ion Implanter equipment (Kingstone vs CETC).
 
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Quickie

Quickie

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FairAndUnbiased said:
Refurbished systems are typically bought for cost, not for performance. For performance you need not only the actual equipment but installation and application engineers to figure out the best way to use your equipment - which is best done for new equipment.

Canon sells brand new KrF front end systems:

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Here's SMEE KrF front end system:

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You don't even have to explain since that news report has been confirmed as fake news.


Schmoe said:
"Hacking to make SMIC existing paid scanner to nonworking is illegal nor doable." Couldn't, or wouldn't, the embedded software packages built into scanners require an updated code after a specified period of time, or the system locks? Microsoft has figured that out. There are also concerns that Russia might have serious problems due to that issue, although hopefully Russian coders can replace most software.
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Is software disabling through code and system locks really a problem? Software pirates have been quite successfully bypassing dongle/password lock as part of their business, something which the Chinese coders could do should things get to that stage where everything goes. Software/service support wouldn't be an issue at that stage if the Chinese coders were already modifying and looking into the workings of the software.
 
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BlackWindMnt

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Quickie said:
You don't even have to explain since that news report has been confirmed as fake news.




Is software disabling through code and system locks really a problem? Software pirates have been quite successfully bypassing dongle/password lock as part of their business, something which the Chinese coders could do should things get to that stage where everything goes. Software/service support wouldn't be an issue at that stage if the Chinese coders were already modifying and looking into the workings of the software.
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Depend how easy it is to get the custom firmware onto the machines, in some industry it hilariously easy others not so much close to impossible.
 
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european_guy

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t2contra said:
I think it was @european_guy
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Yes, I have raised this possibility, mainly as a technical question, not one that could make business sense. I know for sure that in a totally different field, a machinery manufacturer has indeed threatened a (not paying) customer to block his machine from working...at the end they settled the issue.

@hvpc explained me that it would make more sense to simply stop servicing the machines and selling spare parts, and this would have the same effect of blocking the fab from working. There is also a precedent with memory maker Fujian JinHua:

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"Then the U.S. Justice Department accused it of stealing American technology, and Commerce slammed the door on purchases of the chipmaking gear it needed to hit that milestone. Expansion work halted as its American and even European suppliers skipped town"


I fully agree this approach would not make any business sense, and would probably be illegal....but when US decides to go against you, the concept of illegal / not fair becomes very blurred...manly the only rule is "might makes right".
 
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hvpc

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european_guy said:
Yes, I have raised this possibility, mainly as a technical question, not one that could make business sense. I know for sure that in a totally different field, a machinery manufacturer has indeed threatened a (not paying) customer to block his machine from working...at the end they settled the issue.

@hvpc explained me that it would make more sense to simply stop servicing the machines and selling spare parts, and this would have the same effect of blocking the fab from working. There is also a precedent with memory maker Fujian JinHua:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

"Then the U.S. Justice Department accused it of stealing American technology, and Commerce slammed the door on purchases of the chipmaking gear it needed to hit that milestone. Expansion work halted as its American and even European suppliers skipped town"


I fully agree this approach would not make any business sense, and would probably be illegal....but when US decides to go against you, the concept of illegal / not fair becomes very blurred...manly the only rule is "might makes right".
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JHICC was a customer of mine. When the U. S. DOJ indicted JHICC and UMC for stealing Micron’s IP we stopped engaging with them. All American suppliers stopped all projects, service, and no parts for them. Without support from their vendors they could only limped along and only run small volume now.

Amongst major suppliers, I think only asml still work with them.
 
56860

56860

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hvpc said:
JHICC was a customer of mine. When the U. S. DOJ indicted JHICC and UMC for stealing Micron’s IP we stopped engaging with them. All American suppliers stopped all projects, service, and no parts for them. Without support from their vendors they could only limped along and only run small volume now.

Amongst major suppliers, I think only asml still work with them.
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What did you think of the whole situation?
 
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