Chinese semiconductor industry

Status
Not open for further replies.

daifo

Captain
Registered Member
It sounds like it'll run a Chinese OS, for a completely Chinese netbook. Huawei's Harmony OS maybe?


Would HarmonyOS be considered a "Custom OS developed in China"? It could also be something akin to android, like a fork of android.

It doesn't go into detail on which architecture it is using. If it was arm, harmony os or linux could be ported easily and software easily availiable. Same for x86. If it was something "new", not only the os needs to be carefully ported, software would have to be recompiled for that architecture.
 

ZeEa5KPul

Colonel
Registered Member
Consolidation isn't easy. It is like how an empty house + a pile of fixtures in the yard won't sell for nearly as much as a fully equipped house with working kitchen, toilets etc.
How long do you think it'll take until China produces a company (or industrial group) that can offer a turnkey solution?
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
How long do you think it'll take until China produces a company (or industrial group) that can offer a turnkey solution?
Might be never but Naura is getting there as @tokenanalyst mentioned above. It's not important for large foundries who will have their own system for maximum productivity in wafers/month and will stick with a small subset of suppliers who they've already verified to work in their proprietary system. Also not important for R&D where productivity (in wafers/month) is unimportant.

This sort of thing might be more useful for industrial companies that want an in house fab for a specialized process like sensors, analog, optoelectronics, etc. Kind of like how Bosch and Toyota have their own fabs.
 

ZeEa5KPul

Colonel
Registered Member
This sort of thing might be more useful for industrial companies that want an in house fab for a specialized process like sensors, analog, optoelectronics, etc. Kind of like how Bosch and Toyota have their own fabs.
But it would still be useful for China to have something similar for quasi-semiconductor companies with minor fabs, no? Or could companies like Bosch and Toyota get by contracting out their needs to an outside fab?
 

daifo

Captain
Registered Member
It doesn't go into detail on which architecture it is using. If it was arm, harmony os or linux could be ported easily and software easily availiable. Same for x86. If it was something "new", not only the os needs to be carefully ported, software would have to be recompiled for that architecture.

"The Lenovo Kaitian N7 is powered by a quad-core Zhaoxin KaiXian KX-6600MA4 CPU based on the LuJiaZui microarchitecture made using TSMC's 16 nm fabrication technology. "

I guess it is some x86 compatible architecture, part of the family of desktop line they release last year.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

They should really take an initiative in China to churn out a "ChromeOS" (which btw supports Android apps and a linux container these days) type operating system and start selling these lower spec systems. I really tried to like deepin but its still buggy, has the linux complexities, and has outdated debian libraries.
 

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
IF a Big IF Huawei is able to produced its 3D stacking 14nm chips in 2022 and 7nm in 2023, then there is a chance that maybe in 2024, a Huawei or SMIC 5nm 3D (DUVL) chip will be able match TSMC who are having yield problem with its 3nm chips.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!




7 hours ago — A report citing semiconductor industry sources indicates that TSMC reportedly has difficulty with its 3nm process yields

TSMC 3nm Yield Problems May Derail AMD's CPU Plans​

By
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
published about 7 hours ago
Difficulties with the 3nm furnace
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

TSMC

TSMC (Image credit: ToyW / Shutterstock.com)


A report citing semiconductor industry sources indicates that TSMC reportedly has difficulty with its 3nm process yields. Taiwan's
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
says that if the 3nm yield problem continues, many customers might extend their use of the 5nm process node. In addition, TSMC's struggles could impact the product roadmaps of the PC world's favorite names like AMD and Nvidia.


It's essential to take the report with a pinch of salt. The people in the know might be correct, but TSMC hasn't publicly admitted any N3 delays so far. On the contrary, it has asserted that it is "on track with good progress."

The source report's critical rumor is pinned upon TSMC, finding it very difficult to achieve satisfactory yields with its 3nm FinFET processes. It explains that TSMC has "continuously revised" its 3nm offerings, and the foundry is seemingly doing this to find a sweet spot for yields (the percentage of chips that are not faulty). The latest TSMC introduction is N3E, a lower-cost version of TSMC's 3nm manufacturing process, which surprised industry watchers by arriving a year after N3. TSMC also makes N3B processors for some customers, depending upon design and cost constraints. Despite TSMC's process wrangling, outlined above, and "constant revision," the insiders say yields continue to remain lower than expected.


Due to the 3nm family issues, some TSMC's customers are looking at rejigging plans, which means changing their roadmaps. In addition, customers like Apple and Intel have paid a lot to secure N3 process chips in the coming months. Other partners like AMD must not have felt the urgency or need for such lavish pre-payments so that they will feel the most substantial effect of TSMC's yield issues.

AMD's Roadmap Roadblock​


The DigiTimes report says that AMD is one of the biggest customers of the TSMC 7nm family, which offers N7 and N6 process fabrication. AMD has just started to move parts to N6, such as the
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
series of processors for laptops. Newer GPUs will be coming out based on N6 output too.


AMD's subsequent big releases, such as the Ryzen 7000 series desktop processors and Genoa and Bergamo server processors, will all be based on the Zen 4 architecture and be fabricated at 5nm by TSMC. As a reminder, the TSMC 5nm process family will be referred to as N5 and N4 processes by TSMC. AMD had planned to go on to TSMC 3nm for Zen 5 and RDNA 4.

The report also mentioned Nvidia, saying that the green team was set to return to TSMC later this year and will use one of TSMC's 5nm processes for the RTX 40-series GPUs, having paid "billions of dollars" to secure this production allocation.

TSMC vs Samsung​


The news outlet threw some interesting Samsung semiconductor business morsels into the article. While TSMC has various 3nm wrinkles to try and iron out, Samsung's progress is also rough, it asserts. Moreover, it comments that Samsung's recent 4nm Exynos 2200 debut wasn't the barnstormer it had teased.

Samsung has a significant hurdle to leap over with its upcoming 3nm process, too. The South Korean tech giant moves to the Gate-All-Around FET (GAA) transistor architecture. It's quite a change to make, but it should make advances later down the pipeline easier. However, its transition to 3nm will be all the more tricky before it can reap the rewards.
 

tokenanalyst

Brigadier
Registered Member
Standard setting might help here.
The problem is that semiconductor manufacturing is a very secretive industry more like a secret recipe from a fancy restaurant, SMIC wont want to help any future competitor by setting standards on how they use their equipment and what suppliers they have, they prefer to have that secret recipe for themselves. So i think will be everyone on their own to figure out the best suppliers and work with them to make sure that that equipment or material fit the fab manufacturing process and create an ecosystem. At the end of the day with time only a few suppliers in each sector (Lithography, Vapor deposition, ALD, etching, thermal processing, implantation, etc) are going to survive and will become the go to suppliers for most fabs in China, the others will either find niches industries to serve or are going to be bought by the big ones or go out of business.
 

tokenanalyst

Brigadier
Registered Member

Huawei taps deeper into third-generation (GaN-SIC power) semiconductor segment​

Huawei's investment arm Hubble Technology Investment has recently purchased a 10% stake in Beijing TSD Semiconductor Equipment as the fifth largest shareholder in the supplier of a variety of third-generation compound semiconductors processing equipment.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top