Chinese SAM

adeptitus

Captain
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Sea Dog said:
Out of curiousity, what version of S-300 does PRC currently field? And what updates if any have they done to increase its reliability? I've been wondering this for awhile. No doubt they have learned alot from the earliest models.

Hi Sea Dog,

You can read about it here:
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I haven't read anything about upgrades for the older S-300 vairants, I think the PLA prolly just move them to less critical areas and just import newer models. The PLA has traditionally preferred to eventually reverse engineer or at least locally assemble military hardware, there are reports of PRC licensing the S-300 for domestic production in China.

For those interested, here's a blurb on the HQ-9 and FT-2000:
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(Note in reference section, they're quoting Sinodefense)
 

tphuang

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interesting article if anyone cares to read, it's in Chinese, I must warn you.
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DayDreamer

Just Hatched
Registered Member
One reason why the chinese use at least two systems for each level of AD is that there is a team-up policy for weasons homemade and imported. This is to make sure the system is not totally bugged by overseas producers. Such kind a policy however make the whole things more complicated.
 

adeptitus

Captain
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tphuang said:
interesting article if anyone cares to read, it's in Chinese, I must warn you.
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For those who can't read Chinese, babelfish will work with the above URL:
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Just plug the URL into "Translate a web page", and select "Chinese-Simp to English" and click on Translate.
 

MIGleader

Banned Idiot
To Seadog, i we shall continue our sm-3 talk right here, as it is inappropriate for the ballistic missle thread.

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China's missle of the future, the s-400, shall be superior to the sm-3. The s-400 can handle cruise missles and ballistic missles like hte sm-3, but the s-400has a much greater range of 400km. These missles have 9m96 interceptors with them, incresing kill ability against low flying targets. The missle can be intergrated with china's s-300 radar and transport vehicle complexes, so the transition shall be fast, cheap, and smooth.

The s-400 is also claimed to be able to home on stealth bombers.

btw, the missle has completed development, and may be entering service in russia as soon as this year. foreign customers are expected.

perhaps china will first order several(~12) batteries of s-400s before reverting to local production as hq-17 or something.
 

PiSigma

"the engineer"
i won't trust in the whole "detect stealth" that they are selling. first of all, what stealth planes are the russians going to test this on??? russia can't exactly ask USA to lend them a few f-117s or B2s so they can see if they can shoot them down...
 

MIGleader

Banned Idiot
Pisigma, I said "claimed". i know the russians arnt the most credible when it comes to this, but they wouldnt entirely lie about it either. This must mean the s-400 has some features that allow it to detect low-detectability aircraft.

The russians have designed their own stealthy aircraft, and i wouldnt put it beyond their ability to make a b-2 imitation airframe to test their radar.
 

Sea Dog

Junior Member
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MIGleader said:
China's missle of the future, the s-400, shall be superior to the sm-3. The s-400 can handle cruise missles and ballistic missles like hte sm-3, but the s-400has a much greater range of 400km. These missles have 9m96 interceptors with them, incresing kill ability against low flying targets. The missle can be intergrated with china's s-300 radar and transport vehicle complexes, so the transition shall be fast, cheap, and smooth.

The s-400 is also claimed to be able to home on stealth bombers.

The SM-3 can range farther than 500 Km from almost every open-source database out there. And an altitude of greater than 160 Km. They as a ship-deployed system are much more mobile and are already fielded. They are in testing as a fielded system now. They can be salvo fired with a number of missiles (I don't know how many can be controlled though) and have proven to be reliable against systems using decoys and jammers. They have been proven against seperated ballistic warheads. It's primary use is for ballistic missiles only. It's not designed to be used against aircraft or cruise missiles, so S-400 and SM-3 couldn't even compare. They are totally different in philosophy. Just wait until SM-6 ERAM is out also. It is intended to go beyond 600 Km utilizing usable datalinks and an onboard radar for active radar guidance. This is the future in regards to killing cruise missiles from long distances. It should also be noted that SM-6 could easily be converted into an anti-ship missile. Nothing out there will match it. SM-2 is currently fielded against cruise missiles and aircraft now also at significant range. It's currently a world class system. I think Standard's as a coordinated system may be one up on any future S-400. We'll have to see how it would stack up against Patriot's as well. We don't know. Plus, not even S-300 has seen any combat. I don't expect that S-300 to exceed Patriot in capability. With the use of stealth systems, low-observable cruise missiles, and advanced electronic warfare techniques, S-300 may show less effectiveness than Patriot. And we'll have to just wait and see about S-400. As far as we know, S-400 is not even a deployed system yet.

And the "stealth" homing claims are rather suspect. Alot of Russian claims have proven to be untrue. And no, Russia does not have any comparable stealth aircraft.

To try and steer this thing back on topic "Chinese SAM", Let me ask about the HQ-18 system. I've seen some reference to it in some forums as a successor to what was planned for HQ-9/9A. Is that true? Also, it is a version of S-300......as S-300V. I think the range was listed at a little over 100Km.
 
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tphuang

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Sea Dog said:
The SM-3 can range farther than 500 Km from almost every open-source database out there. And an altitude of greater than 160 Km. They as a ship-deployed system are much more mobile and are already fielded. They are in testing as a fielded system now. They can be salvo fired with a number of missiles (I don't know how many can be controlled though) and have proven to be reliable against systems using decoys and jammers. They have been proven against seperated ballistic warheads. It's primary use is for ballistic missiles only. It's not designed to be used against aircraft or cruise missiles, so S-400 and SM-3 couldn't even compare. They are totally different in philosophy. Just wait until SM-6 ERAM is out also. It is intended to go beyond 600 Km utilizing usable datalinks and an onboard radar for active radar guidance. This is the future in regards to killing cruise missiles from long distances. It should also be noted that SM-6 could easily be converted into an anti-ship missile. Nothing out there will match it. SM-2 is currently fielded against cruise missiles and aircraft now also at significant range. It's currently a world class system. I think Standard's as a coordinated system may be one up on any future S-400. We'll have to see how it would stack up against Patriot's as well. We don't know. Plus, not even S-300 has seen any combat. I don't expect that S-300 to exceed Patriot in capability. With the use of stealth systems, low-observable cruise missiles, and advanced electronic warfare techniques, S-300 may show less effectiveness than Patriot. And we'll have to just wait and see about S-400. As far as we know, S-400 is not even a deployed system yet.

And the "stealth" homing claims are rather suspect. Alot of Russian claims have proven to be untrue. And no, Russia does not have any comparable stealth aircraft.

To try and steer this thing back on topic "Chinese SAM", Let me ask about the HQ-18 system. I've seen some reference to it in some forums as a successor to what was planned for HQ-9/9A. Is that true? Also, it is a version of S-300......as S-300V. I think the range was listed at a little over 100Km.
S-400 is actually deployed (surprisingly) in Moscow area. I think China is just waiting for Russia to give the go ahead for exporting this system. From the past pattern, this will probably happen in 2007-8. Also, since the S series all use modular design, the old S-300PMU series can easily be upgraded.

As for HQ-18, it is a ballistic missile defence system. HQ-9 is the SAM against fighter/bombers/AWACS/cruise missiles. It's range supposed to be 150 KM+. I guess all future Chinese long range SAM will be based on HQ-9. HQ-18 probably isn't out. As of now, China has no real defence against ballistic missiles.
 

Indianfighter

Junior Member
The developments in SAM technology by China are quite advanced. Again, China has been in the forefront in the development of a new idea of anti-radiation SAMs, which not only use the radiation of aircraft, but also the jamming signals of the aircraft/AWACs to home to the target.

The question arises again, as to why did the US not develop a SAM similar to the FT-2000. Radar technology is the most advanced in the US, and it could have developed a SAM that homes on the source of jamming signals.

The need is indeed present to the US, as it is not the only nation to have AWACs.
 
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