Chinese purchase of Su-35
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Let's get off this J-10 and J-11B number stuff and back onto Su-35.
Mig-29, you should be well aware by now that a lot of internet sources are not accurate and that those who have been around this forum know very well how many J-10s and J-11Bs are around. In fact, that's part of obsessive nature and we use numerous sources for this that are far more updated than fas or rand or anything else you are pulling up. Please be respectful toward others who know far more than you do in this aspect and do not continue. You keep bringing in non-related topics to help your point, but that only serves to annoy other members. Please have some respect for this forum and do not keep taking threads completely off topic to try to argue your points.
Last of all, please be respectful toward Deino on this matter. He is not Chinese, but has followed this for a long time and is a moderator on this forum. If he is saying that you are wrong, be ready to accept that rather than restating the same sources that are wrong.
Mig-29, you should be well aware by now that a lot of internet sources are not accurate and that those who have been around this forum know very well how many J-10s and J-11Bs are around. In fact, that's part of obsessive nature and we use numerous sources for this that are far more updated than fas or rand or anything else you are pulling up. Please be respectful toward others who know far more than you do in this aspect and do not continue. You keep bringing in non-related topics to help your point, but that only serves to annoy other members. Please have some respect for this forum and do not keep taking threads completely off topic to try to argue your points.
Last of all, please be respectful toward Deino on this matter. He is not Chinese, but has followed this for a long time and is a moderator on this forum. If he is saying that you are wrong, be ready to accept that rather than restating the same sources that are wrong.
Well... to be fair, he say the avonic is inferior to US counterpart and not the rest of the 'western' countries, like those used by the Rafale and Typhoon.
thunderchief
Senior Member
Article from 2011 dude
And it looks like bad translation , I would like to see original AeroEngineer
Junior Member
Breaking news, according to Kanwa's Pinkov. China is far from reaching a deal with Russia on Su-35 yet.
It says that they two countries have many disagreements on the deal, and the deal will most likely fell through like the Tu-22M3, and Su-33 deals. China has not even start serious talk with Russia yet, this is why the deal keeps getting delay, delay, delay and delayed again and again. Eventually it will fell through like other deals.
Basically, China has selected AL-31M1 as the interim engine for J-20. AL-31M1 has 133KN of thrust and improved performance as well. Also, China funded the AL-31M1, and M2 development and can acquire them, without buying any other Russian planes.
It says that they two countries have many disagreements on the deal, and the deal will most likely fell through like the Tu-22M3, and Su-33 deals. China has not even start serious talk with Russia yet, this is why the deal keeps getting delay, delay, delay and delayed again and again. Eventually it will fell through like other deals.
Basically, China has selected AL-31M1 as the interim engine for J-20. AL-31M1 has 133KN of thrust and improved performance as well. Also, China funded the AL-31M1, and M2 development and can acquire them
, without buying any other Russian planes.
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The Russians always wanted to sell the Su-35 to the Chinese much more than the Chinese wanted to buy it. This has been true with just about every piece of equipment the Russians had wanted to sell to the Chinese since about 2002.
Russia knows its soviet bequethed, chronically underfunded military industrial base and weapon development capability is a wasting asset. Russia's small GDP and mediocre economic outlook means it will inevitably subside into second tier uncompetitive status. Russia needs to sell as much as it can while its defence industry hasn't yet been wholly overtaken by the technologies of other up and coming powers. So it needs to sell now. If doen't sell in the next few years, it may never sell, ever.
The Chinese knows it large GDP and its fast expanding economy means it will likely catch up to state of the art, and likely sooner rather than later. It doesn't need to buy. It can wait. The longer it waits, the closer its domestic capability will approach state of the art and less need it would have to buy.
So unless there is true threat of major war in the next 5 years, I don't expect the Chinese would commit to any more large scale weapon purchases from Russia again, ever. Russia lost her chance 10 years ago. In another 10 years, the Chinese would have swamped the Russians in the world military export market and become the default provider of advanced weapons for those who could not or would not buy American or European.
Russia knows its soviet bequethed, chronically underfunded military industrial base and weapon development capability is a wasting asset. Russia's small GDP and mediocre economic outlook means it will inevitably subside into second tier uncompetitive status. Russia needs to sell as much as it can while its defence industry hasn't yet been wholly overtaken by the technologies of other up and coming powers. So it needs to sell now. If doen't sell in the next few years, it may never sell, ever.
The Chinese knows it large GDP and its fast expanding economy means it will likely catch up to state of the art, and likely sooner rather than later. It doesn't need to buy. It can wait. The longer it waits, the closer its domestic capability will approach state of the art and less need it would have to buy.
So unless there is true threat of major war in the next 5 years, I don't expect the Chinese would commit to any more large scale weapon purchases from Russia again, ever. Russia lost her chance 10 years ago. In another 10 years, the Chinese would have swamped the Russians in the world military export market and become the default provider of advanced weapons for those who could not or would not buy American or European.
AeroEngineer
Junior Member
You are 110% right. Just look at the Turkey HQ-9 deal, before the Russians are saying that the HQ-9 has ZERO chance of winning, and now what !?!? Also, their S-300 PMU2 was first to be squashed from the competition.
Mark my words, China will overtake Russia as the second largest arms exporter by 2020.
AeroEngineer
Junior Member
You know what I think ??
I think that the Russians offered the Chinese Su-35S which is the same model Russians are using, however, China thinks that it is garbage. Su-35S is much better than the Su-30MKI but now it is 2013. China has J-15, J-16, J-10B not forget to mention J-20 and J-31.
So basically China told Russia to FU@K off with its Su-35S and told them that Su-35 must come with advanced Chinese avionics, weapon systems. Russia know that the avionics and weapons are what is making them money, therefore the deal can NOT be reached.
China does not want or need the Su-35S, Russia however desperately want to sell it to make money to fund its crappy under funded PAK-FA. Russia knows that 117S engine is the only selling point for the Su-35, but now it is over. The new J-20 2003, and 2004 prototypes showed that it is using AL-31FM1.
Game OVER !!
I think that the Russians offered the Chinese Su-35S which is the same model Russians are using, however, China thinks that it is garbage. Su-35S is much better than the Su-30MKI but now it is 2013. China has J-15, J-16, J-10B not forget to mention J-20 and J-31.
So basically China told Russia to FU@K off with its Su-35S and told them that Su-35 must come with advanced Chinese avionics, weapon systems. Russia know that the avionics and weapons are what is making them money, therefore the deal can NOT be reached.
China does not want or need the Su-35S, Russia however desperately want to sell it to make money to fund its crappy under funded PAK-FA. Russia knows that 117S engine is the only selling point for the Su-35, but now it is over. The new J-20 2003, and 2004 prototypes showed that it is using AL-31FM1.
Game OVER !!
antiterror13
Brigadier
What would happen had the Russian "blackmailed" the Chinese to ban selling AL-31, including AL-31FM1 .... unless the Chinese buy SU-35 ? ..... what do you think ?