Chinese purchase of Su-35

flateric said:

Well, my friends were there and saw 'em. That's enough - at least, for me.

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Well, it seems that another member of this forum personally talked to the head of Sukhoi and was apparently told that there were no current orders for the Su-35.

flateric said:

I see intergovernmental agreement signed in January.

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It was first allegedly signed in 2012, and then early 2013, and then apparently during Xi Jinping's visit, and then apparently a few weeks ago; the inconsistency is sufficient enough for people to doubt these claims.

flateric said:

eek... Chinese team sent to buy F-35?

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When does inspecting ever equate to buying?

This Su-35 rumor should be true under any of the following conditions:

1. China's ministry of defence reports it

2. Russia's government reports it

3. Sukhoi reports it

4. A Su-35 is seen at Yanliang

So far the governments of Russia and China have denied the claims.

rhino123 said:

Oh... and a quick search online for the Voice of Russia website. They never did mention anything like the supposedly sales of 100 Su-35 to China. This is the closest thing to the Paris air show by Voice of Russia,

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So... tell me... where did Voice of Russia actually reported the sale of Su-35 to China? More and more I am starting to doubt the accuracy of

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...

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Military China...LOL aren't they the ones who claimed that China has a hypersonic DARPA-type plane already in service?

OK -let's get a couple of things clear.

Pogosyan said to my face last week "UAC has no order for the Su-35 from China." But then fudged a bit and refused to be drawn when pressed further about the matter.

Does that mean there is no likelihood of an order? NO
Does that mean there is not an inter-governmental agreement that may see China place an order? NO

In his press conference he clearly stated that he saw an EXPORT market for "around 100" Su-35s. Be clear, there was no mention of China associated with that figure.

So, if we are to believe him, and there is no reason not to, then at this moment China has NOT ordered any Su-35s, but MAY or MAY NOT do so in the future. That may or may not not help, but that is where we are right now!

When asked (not by me) about Chinese copying he also replied that UAC had two defences.

"First, we have a very good legal department" (laughter) and, second, "We keep moving. By the time they have copied anything we sell them we will be way ahead anyway."

DTJJ said:

OK -let's get a couple of things clear.

Pogosyan said to my face last week "UAC has no order for the Su-35 from China." But then fudged a bit and refused to be drawn when pressed further about the matter.

!

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Let me opine, this topics goes around opinions and not by facts.

The reports say China and Russia have signed an agreement about the Intelectual property of Sukhoi aicraft, this means a preliminary contract before a contract for the SU-35S.

If Pogyosan told you that, that does not mean he is telling you what he knows, for a simple reason any customer has the right to anonimity, and to keeps his or her identity secret and his contrat secret.

Russia and Chna did sign a contract and russian officials from Rosoboronexport affirm it.
But this contract is not for the Su-35 but for the intelectual rights that Sukhoi has over Su-35, basicly it forces China not to try to reverse engineer the aircraft regardless if they are sucessful or not in doing it or if it is the 117 engine o the irbis radar or the whole aircraft i mean parts or the whole Su-35


this is what RT reported

The first country to buy a Sukhoi Su-35 could be China, as Beijing is already in talks with the manufacturer: “We have signed an intergovernmental agreement on the supply of Su-35 planes to China," Aleksandr Mikheyev, deputy head of Russian arms corporation Rosoboronexport told reporters.
"As of today we have a legal base with China. An agreement on the protection of intellectual property has been signed," Mikheyev added. Beijing reportedly intends to buy 24 Su-35s, with a contract due to be signed by the end of 2013.


So Pogyosan never lied you, China has not signed any agreement for the actual delivery of Su-35 to the PLAAF, but preliminary legal agreements that migh lead to a real purchase of the aircraft by China and for that they say could be the first country to buy Su-35s


However Chinese officials have gone to Russia to see a demostration of Su-35 according to some other reports.

MiG-29 said:

The reports say China and Russia have signed an agreement about the Intelectual property of Sukhoi aicraft...

Russia and Chna did sign a contract and russian officials from Rosoboronexport affirm it.
But this contract is not for the Su-35 but for the intelectual rights that Sukhoi has over Su-35, basicly it forces China not to try to reverse engineer the aircraft regardless if they are sucessful or not in doing it or if it is the 117 engine o the irbis radar or the whole aircraft i mean parts or the whole Su-35

this is what RT reported

The first country to buy a Sukhoi Su-35 could be China, as Beijing is already in talks with the manufacturer: “We have signed an intergovernmental agreement on the supply of Su-35 planes to China," Aleksandr Mikheyev, deputy head of Russian arms corporation Rosoboronexport told reporters.
"As of today we have a legal base with China. An agreement on the protection of intellectual property has been signed," Mikheyev added. Beijing reportedly intends to buy 24 Su-35s, with a contract due to be signed by the end of 2013.

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So if China does not sign a contract to buy Su-35 by the end of 2013 and the deal is called off, the reason is not because of IP concerns, that Russians are afraid of Chinese illegally copying their stuffs. Thanks for telling me this fact.

Probably have to rely on flateric's reason that KnAAZ is too busy with other orders....

And to surmarise,

1) military.china.com is nothing but full of hot air and not to be taken seriously and should NOT even be posted here as evidence of anything.

2) Despite Su-35 being an excellent aircraft, till date it had not secure a place in the Chinese arsenal but this does not equate to the Chinese might not buy that aircraft in future.

3) Unless the Russian and Chinese government agreed and announced the sales or purchase agreement and an official contract was being signed, then all others claims are mere BS at best.

4) Voice of Russia NEVER report a supposedly sales of 100 Su-35 to China (that is a whole load of BS by you know which site).

So... with the above summary, was it still worthwhile to continue the discussion that the Chinese had bought this particular aircraft?

For Your Reference.

Xinhua net reprints the "rumor". The source is still "Voice of Russia"

DTJJ said:

When asked (not by me) about Chinese copying he also replied that UAC had two defences.

"First, we have a very good legal department" (laughter) and, second, "We keep moving. By the time they have copied anything we sell them we will be way ahead anyway."

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But none of those aforementioned things ever happened, did it? The Russians never went through with the case of the J-11B and the Su-35 boasts only a kinematics advantage and perhaps a situational awareness advantage over the J-11B despite entering service years later, at a loss of an avionics advantage and probably electronics advantage.