Chinese purchase of Su-35

vesicles said:

Well, I'm not the one who's trying to tell people how to be a better writer... and you are the one who brought up the fanboy issue and tried to blame everyone here as fanboys.

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No i am sure you are an expert specially bringing high school issues to other trying to triple bully me as they did to you at high school.
These days any one can write, i write articles about aviation in Spanish, what that makes me an expert?

I am a fanboy too at heart, always be, as long as I am not a engineer in aerodynamics, pilot of an specific fighter of expert in avionics or armament but if i really was that i would never talk, i do not think they will allow me.


Why i trust Russian press releases? because many come from manufacturers , designers and i watch many in Russia language that talk about Su-35 or PAKFA, if that makes me a fanboy so be it, but still i know both Lockheed and Sukhoi have biases.

b787 said:

No i am sure you are an expert specially bringing high school issues to other trying to triple bully me as they did to you at high school.

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When did I mention anything about high school? All I said was your confusing triple negative sentence.

And you somehow made the magical connection to my "high school issues".

I guess this is a good time to assess your failed marriages and potential explanation for why you are defensive all the time?

latenlazy said:

I don't see anyone denying that China bought Su-35. We are discussing the reasons for the purchase. Those reasons are not self evident.

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for you is not self evident, not for others, it is easy, as long as they do not have a good engine they are stuck, J-20 is at this moment being built with a substandard engine thus a fighter like Su-35 brings the speed, weapons load and agility it currently lacks.


In 1970, Mikoyan did the same with MiG-23, the Russians made MiG-23s with R-27 engines just to put it in serial productionand just later they built with R-29 the mass produced MiG-23MF and as the program advanced with R-35 for the best MiG-23ML variant .China is doing the same of course our expert fanboys can not swallow their pride and invent such ridiculous stories about the Su-35 being bought for Charity.

I apologize for the personal attack and let's stop here before it gets nasty again.

vesicles said:

When did I mention anything about high school? All I said was your confusing triple negative sentence.

And you somehow made the magical connection to my "high school issues".

I guess this is a good time to assess your failed marriages and potential explanation for why you are defensive all the time?

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Okay sorry i admit i was defensive, I type so quickly that i made mistakes, my sincere apologies to you

vesicles said:

I apologize for the personal attack and let's stop here before it gets nasty again.

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Do not worry i was defensive too, we can be friends.

b787 said:

Okay sorry i admit i was defensive, I type so quickly that i made mistakes, my sincere apologies to you

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Thanks! I tap out...

b787 said:

Do not worry i was defensive too, we can be friends.

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I agree. We can be friends. Nothing personal.

b787 said:

for you is not self evident, not for others, it is easy, as long as they do not have a good engine they are stuck, J-20 is at this moment being built with a substandard engine thus a fighter like Su-35 brings the speed, weapons load and agility it currently lacks.


In 1970, Mikoyan did the same with MiG-23, the Russians made MiG-23s with R-27 engines just to put it in serial productionand just later they built with R-29 the mass produced MiG-23MF and as the program advanced with R-35 for the best MiG-23ML variant .China is doing the same of course our expert fanboys can not swallow their pride and invent such ridiculous stories about the Su-35 being bought for Charity.

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It is not self evident in the way you think it is because because there are a lot of reasons that contradict the reasons you think apply. If you think those reasons are invalid actually address them and explain why, instead of insisting your preferred reasons must be right without any basis and throwing around the "fanboy" label.

latenlazy said:

And on the contrary I think the details we do have does allow for a certain degree of confidence. If you don't mind me asking (because I don't think you directly addressed this in your earlier comments), what do you make of the following anecdotes, that China wanted to make a smaller purchase and that they were refused the right to open up the Su-35s systems for modification and integration into their own? How do you think this might affect the likelihood for future purchases?

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I assume that the Chinese Su-35s' systems are sinicized to a certain extent so I don't believe that they are not integrated at all even if China has to do extra work. It's unsurprising that at some point during the negotiations that was a point of contention as a matter of course, it's also unsurprising if Russia chose to be difficult given China's history of reverse engineering.

That China wanted to make a smaller puchase of planes meshes with that the Kremlin intervened to make the deal about planes rather than components. The significance depends at what point during the negotiations and the degree of difference in the numbers.

If true to the severe degree implied by others both these points would lend weight to Russia working in a reverse engineering premium into the deal and the key being China was willing to pay it, a major political breakthrough. Further purchases are still possible depending on whether any reverse engineering is successful, if external factors result in an imminent need, or if coming up with co-production to supply one or both countries.