Chinese purchase of Su-35

TerraN_EmpirE · Jan 31, 2017

b787 said:
why do you think China got soviet jets?

Because when they did they did not have much other choice as it was the only allie they had...
But that is the distant past. The Soviet Union is long dead.

Su-35 has radar signature decremented to 1 squared meter, an F-15 of 1979 was 25 Square meters
The original 1986 Su-27 had a RCS of 15 squared meters

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That table lists spects conflicting RCS numbers not once, not twice but three times.

RT ladies and gentlemen the same people who have pumped out most of the Myths of the F35 and death of Stealth well claiming the PAK FA is the best thing since Sliced Bread. And who had on one occasion a member of their news cast, Call out There reports for being Propaganda and QUIT ON SCREEN IN A LIVE BROADCAST! Journalistic integrity

China did not buy a 1992 Su-27SK, but a 2016 aircraft with so much improvements that is ahead of F-18E in performance and in the league of the Silent Eagle F-15.

SE is still in development phase for export offers. That's comparing an existing product to a future product. It's like saying the the new Ipod in your hand is on par with the Samsung Galaxy note 13. If the product is not finalized you cannot use it as a proper basis of comparison to an existing product.

Even Trump is thinking the Boeing F-18E can beat the F-35[/quote]Trump was using the F18 Threat to try and play hard ball on the price, not because he thought it was better. Infact if you read the tweet he admits the current FA18 cannot compete in capabilities. [/quote]

The Su-35 was bought not because is inferior but because is superior to the Chinese made Flankers, and at least will fill the gap until the J-20 is powered with a 5th generation engine[/QUOTE]
I knew I was going to see that damned video... and hear those comments eventually and overall the same results regurgitating the same myths and political BS.

The Fact is That the Chinese did buy a so far small number of SU35's we know 4 have arrived and 20 more are rumored. We should expect these to be delivered in small batches as The Russians themselves only have about 58 since the line opened in what 2007. that is a fairly slow rate of production and procurement especially if you look at F35 which opened in about 2006 and already has 200 units.
at this point in time I think the PLAAF has an equal number of SU35 to J20 LRIP birds so claiming that they are gap filling is a bit dubious.

SinoSoldier · Jan 31, 2017

b787 said:
why do you think China got soviet jets?
Su-35 has radar signature decremented to 1 squared meter, an F-15 of 1979 was 25 Square meters
The original 1986 Su-27 had a RCS of 15 squared meters

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China did not buy a 1992 Su-27SK, but a 2016 aircraft with so much improvements that is ahead of F-18E in performance and in the league of the Silent Eagle F-15.

Even Trump is thinking the Boeing F-18E can beat the F-35

The Su-35 was bought not because is inferior but because is superior to the Chinese made Flankers, and at least will fill the gap until the J-20 is powered with a 5th generation engine

If the Su-35 were indeed "superior" to Chinese Flankers, the PLAAF would've purchased a lot more than merely 24 airframes and wouldn't be in the process of building the J-15/16/11D. As it is, the Su-35 remains a stop-gap measure until more advanced Chinese Flankers are deployed in numbers (the J-11D is still in flight test stage and the J-16 are quite few in number).

Quickie · Jan 31, 2017

Air Force Brat said:
In fact it is quite helpful in every flight regime, if you wish not to go post stall and burn all your energy, you simply maintain your airspeed and energy, that OVT still gives you enhanced control authority!

That's still borderline to stall. This is where the OVT equipped fighter has a slight advantage over the standard fighter in terms of being able to go into a tighter maneuver without risking losing pitch control and stalling.

So, in the end, OVT doesn't improve the aerodynamics of the fighter any better but only allows it to go to the more extreme end of its flight regime, a potential that's already there aerodynamically with or without OVT.

Now, as an example, how much of an improvement in STR would that give to the OVT Su-30MKI over the Su-27. The last I heard not that much, 23 degrees/second against 22.5 degrees/second.

Iron Man · Feb 1, 2017

vesicles said:
That's not what I meant. What I was attempting to convey is that one with a superior product should hold the confidence to show for it. All the crying wolf and all the over-eagerness. The Russians didn't act like they were selling a superior product. And you compare that with how the US is dealing with the F-35? Have they begged people to buy their F-35's?

But this is just your personal (subjective) perception of their level of "eagerness" and self-confidence, which is not a substantive argument against the capabilities of the Su-35.

SinoSoldier said:
If the Su-35 were indeed "superior" to Chinese Flankers, the PLAAF would've purchased a lot more than merely 24 airframes and wouldn't be in the process of building the J-15/16/11D. As it is, the Su-35 remains a stop-gap measure until more advanced Chinese Flankers are deployed in numbers (the J-11D is still in flight test stage and the J-16 are quite few in number).

This reminds me of when China only wanted to buy a few samples of the Su-33 but Russia refused. I suspect there are a few things that China could still learn from the Su-35 that could potentially be applied to its entire sino-Flanker lineup. Russia may have balked at a lower number than 24 and that is what China agreed to. I'm just speculating here but the fact of 24 airframes doesn't give anyone a strong answer as to which country's is actually "superior".

SinoSoldier · Feb 1, 2017

Iron Man said:
But this is just your personal (subjective) perception of their level of "eagerness" and self-confidence, which is not a substantive argument against the capabilities of the Su-35.

This reminds me of when China only wanted to buy a few samples of the Su-33 but Russia refused. I suspect there are a few things that China could still learn from the Su-35 that could potentially be applied to its entire sino-Flanker lineup. Russia may have balked at a lower number than 24 and that is what China agreed to. I'm just speculating here but the fact of 24 airframes doesn't give anyone a strong answer as to which country's is actually "superior".

There are definitely things that the Chinese could learn from the Su-35 (and likewise regarding virtually any modern fighter) but this doesn't discount that Chinese Flankers that are equipped with enhancements (AESA, airframe upgrades, etc.) could very well give the Su-35 a run for its money, if not in an overall sense then at least in the realm of avionics & BVR warfare. The low quantity of aircraft purchased (and also the continued development of J-11D/J-16/J-15A) does not solely decide "X vs Y" but rather serves to support a side of the argument (in this case the Chinese Flankers).

Zool · Feb 1, 2017

Insignius said:
They will be dedicated H-6K escorts. Russian avionics and sensors is a plus here, since China can freely use them in an aggressive fashion without fear of signal intelligence fallout. The enemy is free to collect all those radar signals as they want, since they are Russian and not Chinese anyway.

The PLAAF use case for the Su-35 always made me question this deal. That and the yearly announcements we would hear from Russian officials that final signing was just about to take place. But aside from studying TVC and ACM tactics, you might be on to something here.

Su-35 gives China a cutting edge fighter that can freely use its sensors during intercepts over SCS or ECS without giving anything away of its own indigenous systems. The Su-30MKK/MK2s provide this too but they are nowhere in the same class as Su-35 with their mechanical arrays.

What would really be interesting is if China reached an agreement with Russia to integrate Chinese datalinks into these aircraft. We'll need to keep an eye out for the possibility of Chinese missiles hanging off the rails of these birds to get an idea as to much customisation Russia has allowed.

Air Force Brat · Feb 1, 2017

b787 said:
why do you think China got soviet jets?
Su-35 has radar signature decremented to 1 squared meter, an F-15 of 1979 was 25 Square meters
The original 1986 Su-27 had a RCS of 15 squared meters

"So you're stating the SU-35 has had a 1500% decrease in RCS over the SU-27SK?"

China did not buy a 1992 Su-27SK, but a 2016 aircraft with so much improvements that is ahead of F-18E in performance and in the league of the Silent Eagle F-15.

Even Trump is thinking the Boeing F-18E can beat the F-35

I had NO IDEA, that Donald J. Trump's knowledge of fighter aircraft was held in such high esteem in Mexico, who would a thunk it??? you and Donald Trump aviations dynamic duo???

Air Force Brat · Feb 1, 2017

Quickie said:
That's still borderline to stall. This is where the OVT equipped fighter has a slight advantage over the standard fighter in terms of being able to go into a tighter maneuver without risking losing pitch control and stalling.

So, in the end, OVT doesn't improve the aerodynamics of the fighter any better but only allows it to go to the more extreme end of its flight regime, a potential that's already there aerodynamically with or without OVT.

Now, as an example, how much of an improvement in STR would that give to the OVT Su-30MKI over the Su-27. The last I heard not that much, 23 degrees/second against 22.5 degrees/second.

OVT increases the F-22 sustained turning rate at any speed, and the F-22 is capable of pulling 6Gs at 50,000ft, NOTHING else on the planet comes close to that performance, and it is a direct result of OVT, period!

In spite of what otherwise knowledgeable folks on Sino Defense Forum might or might not know?? OVT is very effective in accelerating and maintaining pitch transitions, when aerodynamic energy is bleeding off, OVT thrust pitching the nose up or down, remains the same as long as the throttle is in the same position.

The SU-35, PAK-FA use vectored thrust to great advantage, the weakness the Russians have is that their engines don't put out as much thrust, nor do they last nearly as long in service, hence the advantage they achieve is reduced as compared to the F-22 and F-119.

Deino · Feb 1, 2017

Guys ... I really don't no why this discussion again goes so off !?? It again is a penis-contest on F-22 vs Su-35, engine comparisons and stealth vs TVC and all spiced up by personnel feelings "WHY, WHY oh WHY" the PLAAF did that deal.

Strange: Fact is plain and simple besides any feelings, the PLAAF must have had a reason why they purchased that bird, why the got so few and what they will do with them; period.

Should I close it again ??

Deino

Deino · Feb 1, 2017

siegecrossbow said:
Apology is complete lol.

Thought they will equip K2S first? Guess not.

Not sure and like I posted yesterday

...

They were rumored to enter the service with PLAAF 18th Division facing the South China Sea. The heavy fighter might provide long-range escort for the H-6K cruise missile carrier patrolling over the West Pacific and over the South China Sea.

...

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I thought they were rumoured to be based at Suixi and assigned to the 2. Division ? :what:

Deino

Chinese purchase of Su-35

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