@TerraN_EmpirE: The Chinese, in their research, have discovered what the Americans have known for a long time; 4th generation aircraft are almost wholly incapable of engaging 5th generation aircraft as the latter can rely on their speed and stealth to take uncounterable potshots before returning to base.
Chinese purchase of Su-35
- Thread starter flyzies
- Start date
Rechecking, the F-35 is not truly supercruise-capable (it cannot sustain supersonic speeds on military power alone; but it can remain there for some time), so I should not have brought it up. In either case, the point is that the Su-35's supercruise is not with payload, as the latter induces drag.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
This is true however today only the Us has operational numbers of fifth gens, the main forces of the neighbors of the PRC are using 4th gens and for the time being the US is still primarily using 4th gens. additionally there are still non stealth platforms like Tankers and transports who are good targets to knock out with a 4th gen fighter.
and F35 can "Supercruise" by the Definition you just used Inst, It can sustain mach 1.2 without use of an afterburner, this was not actually intended to happen it's just that the F135 engine is so powerful it i not called supercruise as it only lasts about 150 miles so they call it a dash.
Quickie
Colonel
Deino is already complaining.
Let me just add that, that would be the Instantaneous TR. The F-22 large lift area and engine power and TVC give a big boost to its ITR. The STR is determined by an aircraft's aerodynamics design.
Yes, OVT helps in this respect. No disagreement.
Don't forget that this is when the aerodynamic lift forces would start to dissipate causing the aircraft to lose altitude. The aircraft could either then recover by reducing its AOA and regaining speed.
OR it could maintain the same pitch or AOA by using TVC and go all the way into stalling, and then pitching up to maintain altitude. The jet engine would then be working more like a rocket engine providing much of the lift instead of using the aircraft's aerodynamic lift forces, but this would mean losing much of the horizontal speed.
Nice Post! but I am a pilot, and apply energy management/aerodynamic science on "every flight"! don't doubt the Brat, all aircraft are subject to gravity and drag....There's no doubt that the Russian Flanker does indeed bring "value added" to its subsequent employment.... so as Jeff Head says "lets see where this goes??". we all have lots of questions, there are however now 4 NEW Russian aircraft in China???
If they are indeed stationed on the coast for intercepts?? that would in my mind constitute an obvious desire for "capability" in the right place, right now.
SinoSoldier
Colonel
Are you implying that the Chinese bought the Su-35s in order to reverse-engineer them? Not only would the Russians have taken preventative steps to mitigate the risk in the first place, but the fact that the Chinese once requested to retrofit the Su-35s with their own subsystems dispels that theory.
Having a more powerful engine is not tantamount to being an overall "superior" aircraft, especially when Chinese Flankers hold advantages in key subsystems (such as fire-control radar) and when the Chinese themselves are developing an 117S equivalent (WS-10IPE).
There is no evidence that the Su-35 carries a higher payload.
Just noting the English location name should be: Shanhai Huangpu.
$2 billion for 24 Su-35 is in fact a cheap price tag. It's similar to what India is paid for Su-30MKI.
How is the 2.5 billion or whatever for the license for Su-27 relevant here? For one, adjusted for inflation that $2.5 billion is now about $4 billion in today's money. Secondly, that $2.5 billion is not the complete cost for the 200 Su-27. The actual cost of actually manufacturing 200 Su-27 will end up much higher than that $2.5 billion.
So no, despite the fact that China only bought 24 aircrafts Russia was not able to extract an "expensive" price tag. Russia is not exactly operating from a position of power here, the economy is suffering, access to foreign capital is limited by the sanctions, the price of oil will remain below the level Russia need for a balanced budget for a long time & the government is rapidly burning through it's reserves.
Equation
Lieutenant General
So you don't deny that you are troll? Nice try bubba, but you're the one that's being uncivilized.
vesicles
Colonel
Well, it is my personal subjective opinion, but an opinion shared by vast majority of members on this forum. Why do you think everyone was so confused? Why do you think experienced and mature members, such as Jeff Head, stated that they refused to believe such deal until they saw the plane in PLAAF insignia? All stemmed from the "perception" created by the Russians themselves: China didn't want the plane and the Russians had been so desperate to sell the plane to China that they were literally pushing the plane down their throat.
Over-eagerness = desperation = lack of confidence, which implies inferior products.
Of course, I agree that the attitude alone is not a substantive evidence of the capability / quality of any product. It could also be poor marketing tactics... And the quality aside, the Russians had been doing a poor job in terms of marketing.
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