Chinese purchase of Su-35

Jura The idiot

Jura The idiot

General
kwaigonegin said:
... All I know is SU35 cost more than $30M.
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LOL I accidentally noticed

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which describes cheering by the Governor of Khabarovsk Krai (the region where the Su-35s are produced) at the contract, which is mostly desbelieved here but that's not the point, who said the price should be in between 83 and 85 million Rubles thus amounting to about two billion Rubles for those 24 airplanes (or no-airplanes :) so, looking at google

1 Russian ruble =
0.015464 U.S. dollars

and taking the average of what this individual said (to a ТАСС correspondent, November 19):
0.015464*80 which is 1.2371 (about one point two) million dollars ... production cost?
 
K

kurutoga

Junior Member
Registered Member
SinoSoldier said:
the Chinese are retrofitting them with their own avionics, sensors, and weapons
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Someone please explain what "avionics" actually mean? Compare a fighter jet to a smart phone, is avionics the equivalent of an operating system, or application-level software, or both? If I understand it correctly, you must customize design the control software (not at kernel level) for each type of machines (e.g. jets or smart phones). But then how can they retrofit another jet's control software onto a foreign designed Su35? Wouldn't the flight control surface, sensor I/O (e.g. radar) and flight characteristics (envelop, max g etc) all be completely different?
 
Quickie

Quickie

Colonel
kurutoga said:
Someone please explain what "avionics" actually mean? Compare a fighter jet to a smart phone, is avionics the equivalent of an operating system, or application-level software, or both? If I understand it correctly, you must customize design the control software (not at kernel level) for each type of machines (e.g. jets or smart phones). But then how can they retrofit another jet's control software onto a foreign designed Su35? Wouldn't the flight control surface, sensor I/O (e.g. radar) and flight characteristics (envelop, max g etc) all be completely different?
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The avionics in this case should mean weapons fire-control avionics, separate from flight control avionics.
 
D

delft

Brigadier
Avionics is electronics hardware and software as used in aircraft - flight control, fire control and communications, and am I forgetting something?
 
Engineer

Engineer

Major
Quickie said:
The avionics in this case should mean weapons fire-control avionics, separate from flight control avionics.
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There isn't much separation between the two. When an aircraft drops bombs, the center-of-gravity of the aircraft will change. Likewise, launching a missile from an aircraft will cause that side of the wing to gain or loose lift. These have to be compensated for by the flight control system, so the fire control system has to tell the flight control system what is being launched. Both systems must speak the same language. You may as well consider them as one system.
 
SinoSoldier

SinoSoldier

Colonel
kurutoga said:
Someone please explain what "avionics" actually mean? Compare a fighter jet to a smart phone, is avionics the equivalent of an operating system, or application-level software, or both? If I understand it correctly, you must customize design the control software (not at kernel level) for each type of machines (e.g. jets or smart phones). But then how can they retrofit another jet's control software onto a foreign designed Su35? Wouldn't the flight control surface, sensor I/O (e.g. radar) and flight characteristics (envelop, max g etc) all be completely different?
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I would presume that the FBW and other flight control systems would be independent from its radar and datalinks. I could be wrong, though.
 
Jeff Head

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
SinoSoldier said:
In all fairness, there was a substantial amount of talk of Pakistan purchasing Su-35s a while back.
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Yes...lots of chatter and talk on the internet...and from "sources," and anonymous people.

Nothing ever confirmed. Just like this old tale of SU-35s for China.

In fact, I rank the "stories," about the Pakistan Su-35 purchase right up there with these "stories."

When it is confirmed by the PRC CCP, I will believe it for the PLAAF.

I would not believe it for Pakistan until I saw them flying in Pakistan in PAF colors.
 
b787

b787

Captain
Richard Santos said:
24 us-35 will hardly tip the balance in any plausible showdown between China and another power. Unless the su-35 is very similar to su-27 in all its maintenance and servicing procedures, it will likely take the Chinese 3-4 years just to bring a small 24 ship fleet of us-35 to a point where it can sustain high mission availability. By which time j-20 would probably be in service in larger numbers than 24.

So I strongly doubt the su-35 is purchased as a stop gap.

I think there are Two possible reasons for the acquisition. One is su-35 is the price Russia exacted for some larger transaction, such as
a batch of engines for the first few blocks of j-20. The second is something I know fanboys will be loathed to hear, which is perhaps j-20 is proving wanting in some way so that it could not adequately fulfill all the roles a late model G4+ fighter can.
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it think they are a stop gap, while China has a large fleet of Su-27 derivatives, several powers boast fleets of 200 F-15s/Su-30s and even South Korea is equipped with at least 61 F-15K with AESA radars
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The 117 engine is approved for export, it has been approved for several years, i do not know if Russia is willing to supply the engines individually to China without the Su-35, but the engines are much much cheaper than the whole Su-35, i do not know the price of the engines but they must be in the range of 3-5 million dollars per unit.

The Irbis while advanced is not the most advanced Radar in Russia too, it is just a cheaper option for Su-35 that is a stop gap aircraft in the RuAF.

India and China took an interest in active phased array radars designed by KRET19 Aug 2014

In terms of efficiency and cost, the new radar has no counterparts in the entire world

India and China have taken an interest in Russian active phased array airborne radars designed by Phazotron-NIIR corporation, one of the world's largest suppliers of front-line aviation radar systems. Interfax-MNA reports based on the information received from the chief designer of the corporation, Yuri Guskov.
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So in my opinion the Su-35s are just to give a small edge in the area while the most advanced J-20 gets readied.
 
SinoSoldier

SinoSoldier

Colonel
b787 said:
it think they are a stop gap, while China has a large fleet of Su-27 derivatives, several powers boast fleets of 200 F-15s/Su-30s and even South Korea is equipped with at least 61 F-15K with AESA radars
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The 117 engine is approved for export, it has been approved for several years, i do not know if Russia is willing to supply the engines individually to China without the Su-35, but the engines are much much cheaper than the whole Su-35, i do not know the price of the engines but they must be in the range of 3-5 million dollars per unit.

The Irbis while advanced is not the most advanced Radar in Russia too, it is just a cheaper option for Su-35 that is a stop gap aircraft in the RuAF.




So in my opinion the Su-35s are just to give a small edge in the area while the most advanced J-20 gets readied.
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However, the Su-35s do not provide any more of an edge than do the J-11Ds or J-16s.
 
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