Chinese purchase of Su-35

Air Force Brat

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
313230 said:
How is that possible? The aircraft speed is like 20m/s -> 80km/h and provides enough lift?
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O V T Komrade!,,,, when you have vectored thrust, and an excess of it, lots of fun stuff can happen, but you still have to play by the rules, the F-22 makes a slow, nose high pass at 85knts???? YEAP! Not sure with modern air combat dogma how that all plays, but it works well for the Raptor boys, and apparently for the Su-35 boys too? all in good fun
 
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Tyloe

Junior Member
A report from Janes suggest that the deal could be signed near the end on this year or the beginning of 2015. An interesting interview and analysis.
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Russia ready to supply 'standard' Su-35s to China, says official
Nikolai Novichkov, Moscow and James Hardy, London - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
25 November 2014

Russia is ready to supply 'standard' versions of the Su-35 combat aircraft to China, Sukhoi first deputy director general Boris Bregman recently told IHS Jane's .

"During talks we informed the Chinese side that we can supply a standard version of the Su-35 fighter, which has been fully completed, tested, and received Russian Air Force certification," he said on the sidelines of Airshow China 2014 in Zhuhai.

Bregman said that the adaptation of the fighter to meet customer requirements - or 'Sinification' - can be performed only as part of a supplementary contract. This work may include some design and development to include the integration of different enhancements, additional algorithms, and Chinese-language user interfaces.

According to the Bregman, such Sinification will take a lot of time as any changes to the aircraft design require additional flight tests and the air launch of armaments. "Flight testing all the Su-35's air-launched missiles takes about 1,000 hours alone. We can't go there," Bregman said.

"I think that the contract will be signed at the end of 2014 or at the beginning of 2015," he said. "There are no obvious political or technical reasons hindering the signing of the contract. The only thing to be done is the elaborate consideration of some details and technical issues.

"I am convinced that if everything is carried out in the proper way, Chinese pilots will be conducting flight demonstrations in 2016," Bregman said.

United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) president Mikhail Pogosyan told reporters at Zhuhai that there was no danger that the Su-35 would be a victim of unlicensed copying: a major concern for Russia given the unlicensed copies of the Su-27 that China began producing as the J-11 and J-15 carrier derivative.

"I believe that there is no direct danger," Pogosyan said. "It is very difficult to make a copy of a high-tech product as there is more to it than meets the eye. As of today I don't know the cases when the copy could achieve global success on the world aircraft market."

"I believe that permanent progress, permanent movement forward is the key method to fight copying. The Russian industry is not stuck - it is moving forward," he added.

COMMENT
Pogosyan's comment on whether a "copy could achieve global success on the world aircraft market" slightly ignores the point that China's previous reverse engineering of the Su-27 was solely for domestic consumption.

Other Russian industry sources told IHS Jane's at Zhuhai that the Russian insistence on a minimum buy of 48 aircraft has since softened to a procurement of just 24 units. The issue of a minimum buy is important because Russian officials believe China is really only interested in the Su-35's NIIP Irbis-E passive electronically scanned array radar and the 117S engine.

The minimum number of aircraft to be procured is, therefore, a way for Russia to ensure that the Chinese pay an appropriate price to acquire these technologies before they copy them, the sources said.

Senior East Asian officials recently told the New York Times that they believe the deal could be scuppered by these issues, but a recent factor that may expedite the sale is Russia's international isolation due to its annexation of Crimea and intervention in eastern Ukraine. In this scenario, China becomes a closer friend as Moscow distances from the West.

Russian president Vladimir Putin and others have said defence exports to China could be one area in which bilateral relations improve, and the two sides agreed to extend defence industrial co-operation in talks on 18-19 November - the same time that the sale of 100 RD-93 turbofans to China emerged.


(620 words)
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SteelBird

SteelBird

Colonel
I remember in October someone suggested that the deal will be signed during the Zhuhai airshow in November. I suggested everybody to stay calm and wait because it is just one month's time to find out the truth. Now, one month has passed and the airshow has ended. Do we need to wait for another month... to find out it is another lie?
 
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Tyloe

Junior Member
I don't know the entire history about the delays of the deal but does anyone think that this news has good or solid credibility?
 
siegecrossbow

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Tyloe said:
A report from Janes suggest that the deal could be signed near the end on this year or the beginning of 2015. An interesting interview and analysis.
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Does standard meant that it isn't a monkey model?

If the deal actually gets through, I hope that China will use indigenous radar and avionics and modify it so that it is compatible with domestic armament.
 
Zool

Zool

Junior Member
SteelBird said:
I remember in October someone suggested that the deal will be signed during the Zhuhai airshow in November. I suggested everybody to stay calm and wait because it is just one month's time to find out the truth. Now, one month has passed and the airshow has ended. Do we need to wait for another month... to find out it is another lie?
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That's funny, because I remember the same thing! I also remember similar comments to this over the last couple of years now - Boris Bregman: "I think that the contract will be signed at the end of 2014 or at the beginning of 2015,". And they always include a similar 'slippage clause' of the deal moving into sometime the following year.

At this point I would be less shocked to see J-20 flying with WS-15 at the beginning of 2015, then I would at this deal being closed.
 
Verum

Verum

Junior Member
I don't understand why everyone's so caught up with the idea that China will buy SU-35. China already has large fleets of variations of Flankers, although they're only 1st (Su27's) and 2nd (SU30's) generation flankers compared to 3rd generation ultimate premium platinum gold-plated chromed cut-from-above SU35, but fundamentally they're very similar, especially compared to the SU30MK2 China currently has. China had many years to reverse engineer them.

Another big thing would be the fielding of J20 in the next few years. Even if Su35 is as good as J20 in many areas, which is possible due to its advanced avionics and engines, it's still illogical to buy it when China wants to devote majority of the funds into J20.

We all know China indeed wants SU35, but not for the plane itself, but to tear it up and extract the tech inside it. Due to this nature, they won't want to buy as many units as the Russians want them to. That's the reason why the talks over the purchase had elapsed many years, but was never able to come to fruition.
 
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