Chinese Internal Politics

drowingfish said:

yes i agree with this line of thinking. you can have a mediocre guy in the position and still get the job done if the system works.

but there is an exception that is when you are in a dire situation and need competent people to accomplish something big...this was China in the 90s and early 2000s. they needed people to grow the economy, and for that reason CCP was willing to overlook some practices in its bureaucracy. corruption at the time was more or less used as an incentive to get the bureaucracy onboard with growth of capitalist economy. now that the economy has been "built", and requires less direct intervention, the CCP is turning around and dealing with those shady practices...looking at it that way it really is just the natural progression of things.

Click to expand...

There is also a matter of how much competence matter in which field. In field of science, very good scientists are worth 50 mediocre ones. These jobs care about creativity and individual talents. If it is just a manager job, a good one is like 40% better than mediocre one. Senior positions like these usually are management types.

SanWenYu said:

This is exactly the problem caused by the silence of the authority at the beginning. The public and media everywhere have watchful eyes on these public figures in spotlights. Not to mention there are leaks from within the authority. It's wishful thinking of the authority that disappearance of high rank officials wouldn't be picked by the public and enemy. The authority being tight-lipped and embargoing the domestic media only left the floor to rumors and enemy's media.
It's rather passive and reactive to just sit and wait for the enemy to rot. Even if China wants to take a defensive position in the PR war, it should defend proactively.

Click to expand...

Majority of officials who got investigated but not indicted went back to work without fanfare.

SanWenYu said:

Credibility needs time to build up. If the authority and the state-run media are always missing from the battles, the public wouldn't all of sudden start trusting them as reliable and credible sources even after the enemy media have died of self-inflicted wounds. Guess who would fill the void then?


It's not conflicting with what I am suggesting. Simply stating the known fact that Qin and Li were off duty won't disclose anything regarding the ongoing investigation. The authority did not have to make the statement on day one. But the earlier it tells the public, the less chance for rumors to spawn and less chance for the enemy to stir up shit.

Click to expand...

How is the US propaganda doing? Its sophisticated PR is actually destroying the country as its people got divided into factions so those in power can easily manipulate them. Its politicians stopped being pragmatic as they started to believe those craps that they used to pollute the world. I have learned that you can't convince idiots. Most of my friends in Hong Kong need to learn the hard way before they realized they live in lala land.

Russian sophisticated PR got sidelined in matter of weeks. Israel is winning the propaganda war as the Western media whitewashed anything it does. However, such victories come with a price. Global south and many people in the world have witnessed the double standards and the West would pay dearly for such one sided bias.

Chinese government can't win against the West in PR. Western media always find a way to demonize China and Chinese government. China shouldn't spend resources to fight against PR that is unwinnable but focus on the fight that can win such as Huawei's Mate 60 pro, it is the biggest coup against the West that would have long term consequence. Same thing with Beijing Olympic, Western powers attempted to humiliate China's backfire and created the first new generation of young Chinese that would never see the world the same. Just look at the article below, how twisted their logic is but their audience don't care and would blindly accept this as fact.

KYli said:

Majority of officials who got investigated but not indicted went back to work without fanfare.

How is the US propaganda doing? Its sophisticated PR is actually destroying the country as its people got divided into factions so those in power can easily manipulate them. Its politicians stopped being pragmatic as they started to believe those craps that they used to pollute the world. I have learned that you can't convince idiots. Most of my friends in Hong Kong need to learn the hard way before they realized they live in lala land.

Russian sophisticated PR got sidelined in matter of weeks. Israel is winning the propaganda war as the Western media whitewashed anything it does. However, such victories come with a price. Global south and many people in the world have witnessed the double standards and the West would pay dearly for such one sided bias.

Chinese government can't win against the West in PR. Western media always find a way to demonize China and Chinese government. China shouldn't spend resources to fight against PR that is unwinnable but focus on the fight that can win such as Huawei's Mate 60 pro, it is the biggest coup against the West that would have long term consequence. Same thing with Beijing Olympic, Western powers attempted to humiliate China's backfire and created the first new generation of young Chinese that would never see the world the same. Just look at the article below, how twisted their logic is but their audience don't care and would blindly accept this as fact.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Click to expand...

But it's not about how the western media are on their course of declining at their own wills. It's about how the Chinese authority, and to some degree the state-run media, can do better in the PR war. The western media are still having influence even within the mainland. China cannot just sit on its hands and wish for fast death of its enemy.

SanWenYu said:

But it's not about how the western media are on their course of declining at their own wills. It's about how the Chinese authority, and to some degree the state-run media, can do better in the PR war. The western media are still having influence even within the mainland. China cannot just sit on its hands and wish for fast death of its enemy.

Click to expand...

CPC's mandate of Heaven was gained when it defeated KMT and ended imperial powers' interference of Chinese domestic affair. After the reopening, China's mandate of Heaven is derived from the promise of revitalization of Chinese civilization, improvement of standard of living, and peace and harmony society. Ever since then, Chinese government has dedicated themselves singularly focused on bringing China to the developed nation status.

China no longer has the intention to engage in an ideological war with the US as Chinese government's authority no longer relies upon winning a PR war with the US.

Western powers went to wars with China from XJ to HK. Both times they lost. Why is that? Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun. China used carrot and stick to subdue XJ. China used a single piece of legislation, the national security law to end the chaos in HK.

As the world sole superpower which has the total control of its vassals from EU to Japan, SK, Taiwan etc, China can't win a PR war with the US. Those Chinese that have inferiority complex would always worship the US as the Western powers have dominated the world for centuries. Not saying China shouldn't do better in PR but PR is not what China needs and spends too much on to win this struggle with the Western powers. Today, 80% of Chinese college graduates from the West returned to China to pursue their career this is more important factor in winning the new cold war than winning over those hanjians that always think the West is better and mostly rely on Western media for information.

KYli said:

CPC's mandate of Heaven was gained when it defeated KMT and ended imperial powers' interference of Chinese domestic affair. After the reopening, China's mandate of Heaven is derived from the promise of revitalization of Chinese civilization, improvement of standard of living, and peace and harmony society. Ever since then, Chinese government has dedicated themselves singularly focused on bringing China to the developed nation status.

China no longer has the intention to engage in an ideological war with the US as Chinese government's authority no longer relies upon winning a PR war with the US.

Click to expand...

I am not suggesting China to take offensive in PR war, let alone to fight an ideological war with the US beyond the borders.

But, within China, there are still battles to win the minds and hearts. As I said in one of my previous posts, even with the approval rate of 90% or 95%, there are still tens of millions unhappy mainland Chinese. And you mentioned HK, TW and XJ.

KYli said:

Western powers went to wars with China from XJ to HK. Both times they lost. Why is that? Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun. China used carrot and stick to subdue XJ. China used a single piece of legislation, the national security law to end the chaos in HK.

As the world sole superpower which has the total control of its vassals from EU to Japan, SK, Taiwan etc, China can't win a PR war with the US. Those Chinese that have inferiority complex would always worship the US as the Western powers have dominated the world for centuries. Not saying China shouldn't do better in PR but PR is not what China needs and spends too much on to win this struggle with the Western powers. Today, 80% of Chinese college graduates from the West returned to China to pursue their career this is more important factor in winning the new cold war than winning over those hanjians that always think the West is better and mostly rely on Western media for information.

Click to expand...

I found it quite interesting that you and some others keep saying that China cannot win the PR war with the US and/or the west. Why is that? CPC won the PR war with KMT. Even if CPC has stopped exporting its communism ideology, it still has PR battles to fight within China and it must not lose. What happened in 1986 and 1989 are clear examples of compaigns on minds and hearts followed by physical sabotages and riots by the west.

Also, you and some others seem to suggest that, if China is to fight back in the PR war, China would necessarily go down the path of the western media and to start doing evils. Why is that?

SanWenYu said:

I am not suggesting China to take offensive in PR war, let alone to fight an ideological war with the US beyond the borders.

But, within China, there are still battles to win the minds and hearts. As I said in one of my previous posts, even with the approval rate of 90% or 95%, there are still tens of millions unhappy mainland Chinese. And you mentioned HK, TW and XJ.



I found it quite interesting that you and some others keep saying that China cannot win the PR war with the US and/or the west. Why is that? CPC won the PR war with KMT. Even if CPC has stopped exporting its communism ideology, it still has PR battles to fight within China and it must not lose. What happened in 1986 and 1989 are clear examples of compaigns on minds and hearts followed by physical sabotages and riots by the west.

Also, you and some others seem to suggest that, if China is to fight back in the PR war, China would necessarily go down the path of the western media and to start doing evils. Why is that?

Click to expand...

90 to 95% and you think that is not having the upper hand in actual messaging? The U.S. along with many western countries that are employing such methods wish they could have the same level of support and approval from their respective population.

People that are anti-China, anti-CPC will be that way regardless of how well the PR machine in China. What's actually worrying that If China were to adopt what you are advocating would in my opinion be ruinous based on what's happened with countries that have adopted such lipstick make over to their policies, politics, economy etc. When the actual reality on the ground is opposite of what's being expressed. I liken China's unsophisticated way of handling PR compared to Western PR to how Asian parenting and expressing love, affection to their children with the touchy feely, and full of I love yous from western parenting style.

Some Asian/Chinese kids who grew up in western world tend to view their parents negatively at a young naive age based on what they observed from their white-western counterparts who showers them with physical and emotional affections. Even the freedom to call their parents out, talking back with great liberty with little to no consequence. It's only when the young Chinese/Asian grows up, experience love, life, and family where the love and sacrifice of their parents are actually understood and appreciated. And Why we for the most part, dedicate ourselves this day to care for our elderly parents because not only of our filial duty, but because of our love and appreciation for them. Whereas, more often than not, westerners send their love, hugs, and kisses to their parents in various seniors home with infrequent visits or by appointments.

In some intellectual level, I sympathize with your ideas and intent as well as your reasoning. But, If I maybe so bold in saying this, your analysis has been jaundiced towards western intellectual prism with good intentions. You'd want the narrative to be proactively shape and stay ahead of whatever narrative the west would like to concoct and have the west be on the defensive or reactive rather than we most of us often witness, which is China being pushed or cornered and reactive to almost countless accusations and slander against her 24/7 365 days.

Bellum_Romanum said:

90 to 95% and you think that is not having the upper hand in actual messaging? The U.S. along with many western countries that are employing such methods wish they could have the same level of support and approval from their respective population.

Click to expand...

Well, 10% is 140 millions. Do you think CPC should give up on all of them? Not all of them are anti-China and anti-CPC. Many of them might be just unhappy with their current situation.

CPC is unlike any western political parties. There is no comparison. CPC has the responsibilities to take care of all Chinese. It is of course much easier to work with a public that are not against you. PR is one of the many tools that CPC must use skillfully.

Bellum_Romanum said:

People that are anti-China, anti-CPC will be that way regardless of how well the PR machine in China. What's actually worrying that If China were to adopt what you are advocating would in my opinion be ruinous based on what's happened with countries that have adopted such lipstick make over to their policies, politics, economy etc. When the actual reality on the ground is opposite of what's being expressed.

Click to expand...

Care to elaborate? I did not even say much on how China should take actions in PR. How could you and some others have already come to the conclusion that it will be disastrous?

I merely suggested that Chinese authority should have proactively stated the fact that Qin and Li to be off duty to prevent the western media from grabbing it as a venue for speculations and insinuations. Please explain how this kind of simple statements would cause the kind of damage you are predicting.

Bellum_Romanum said:

I liken China's unsophisticated way of handling PR compared to Western PR to how Asian parenting and expressing love, affection to their children with the touchy feely, and full of I love yous from western parenting style.

Click to expand...

Bellum_Romanum said:

Some Asian/Chinese kids who grew up in western world tend to view their parents negatively at a young naive age based on what they observed from their white-western counterparts who showers them with physical and emotional affections. Even the freedom to call their parents out, talking back with great liberty with little to no consequence. It's only when the young Chinese/Asian grows up, experience love, life, and family where the love and sacrifice of their parents are actually understood and appreciated. And Why we for the most part, dedicate ourselves this day to care for our elderly parents because not only of our filial duty, but because of our love and appreciation for them. Whereas, more often than not, westerners send their love, hugs, and kisses to their parents in various seniors home with infrequent visits or by appointments.

Click to expand...

I have to admit that I am not able to see the connection between this paragraph of yours and what we have been discussion.

Bellum_Romanum said:

In some intellectual level, I sympathize with your ideas and intent as well as your reasoning. But, If I maybe so bold in saying this, your analysis has been jaundiced towards western intellectual prism with good intentions. You'd want the narrative to be proactively shape and stay ahead of whatever narrative the west would like to concoct and have the west be on the defensive or reactive rather than we most of us often witness, which is China being pushed or cornered and reactive to almost countless accusations and slander against her 24/7 365 days.

Click to expand...

I have kept saying that I am not suggesting China to be on offensive in the PR war. I don't know how this message get lost. Let me repeat, I just want China to defend proactively, instead of the current passive and reactive approach. So it's not me saying to "have the west be on the defensive or reactive".

Boltzmann said:

Just my opinion since the affair rumor seems a bit too lurid to be true, it's like something out of a bad cold war drama. I could be wrong but that's my view.

Click to expand...

What made you think that Qin Gang has died?

Petrolicious88 said:

Tons of senior officials have affairs. That happens up and down the party rank. It’s not unique to Qin Gang. That’s not the problem.

But having a child by surrogacy involving an American citizen?! Qin Gang thought this can be kept hidden? He was under constant surveillance by the U.S. intelligence community the moment he started his job in America.

Click to expand...

did it happen during his ambassador role in the US ?

Oh boy. Conspiracy theories incoming…