Chinese Internal Politics

tamsen_ikard · Mar 11, 2023

siegecrossbow said:
All of the guys are confirmed to be Xi allies now. If he succeeds, then they are good picks. But if the tough gets going he can’t blame the failure on tuanpai holding him back.

I think Covid lockdowns and Tech crackdown seriously dented CCP popularity in the educated middle-class. There used to be alot of popularity for CCP due to US attacks against China. But mood shifted in 2022 due to covid lockdown, property crisis, tech crackdown. Alot of young Chinese have become visibly anti-CCP to the point of wishing US to keep attacking China so that CCP falls. This then ofcourse led to the protests to end lockdowns and in those protests people called for CCP to step down.

I think Xi faces a dilemma here. He needs to keep pushing for China's self reliance, common prosperity and well run property market for China's long term well being. But the public wants fast growth and easy money of the old days. There is still a lot American worship in China. So, any policy that causes hardship only fuels more discontent against CCP.

Xi will have to balance policies that raises growth rate again while also looking at long term well being. Its a tough balancing act. We already see China essentially backing down against many hostile western countries like Australia. China has stopped sanctioning australia even though Australia has made no concessions. Its essentially China admitting defeat.

China will face a very tough decade going forward. But interestingly enough, Xi is probably the best leader with enough dose of pragmatism, nationalism and long term thinking to navigate these troubled times.

ansy1968 · Mar 11, 2023

tamsen_ikard said:
I think Covid lockdowns and Tech crackdown seriously dented CCP popularity in the educated middle-class. There used to be alot of popularity for CCP due to US attacks against China. But mood shifted in 2022 due to covid lockdown, property crisis, tech crackdown. Alot of young Chinese have become visibly anti-CCP to the point of wishing US to keep attacking China so that CCP falls. This then ofcourse led to the protests to end lockdowns and in those protests people called for CCP to step down.

Bro I can't understand your logic here, Xi policy is popular among the young Chinese because his action is for their benefits. Busting monopolies and housing speculation is part of his promise of Chinese Dream. Compare that with the US, I think majority if not all Chinese approved what Xi had done. I say that with full confidence even if I'm an overseas Chinese.

tamsen_ikard said:
I think Xi faces a dilemma here. He needs to keep pushing for China's self reliance, common prosperity and well run property market for China's long term well being. But the public wants fast growth and easy money of the old days. There is still a lot American worship in China. So, any policy that causes hardship only fuels more discontent against CCP.

When your idol despise you, you think you won't hate him back.

for the Chinese Wokeness is an alien word.

tamsen_ikard said:
Xi will have to balance policies that raises growth rate again while also looking at long term well being. Its a tough balancing act. We already see China essentially backing down against many hostile western countries like Australia. China has stopped sanctioning australia even though Australia has made no concessions. Its essentially China admitting defeat.

and yet they accept Yuan as payment for the iron ore, so who back down?

tamsen_ikard said:
China will face a very tough decade going forward. But interestingly enough, Xi is probably the best leader with enough dose of pragmatism, nationalism and long term thinking to navigate these troubled times.

And he accept the challenge, a true leader deserving great praise.

tamsen_ikard · Mar 11, 2023

ansy1968 said:
Bro I can't understand your logic here, Xi policy is popular among the young Chinese because his action is for their benefits. Busting monopolies and housing speculation is part of his promise of Chinese Dream. Compare that with the US, I think majority if not all Chinese approved what Xi had done. I say that with full confidence even if I'm an overseas Chinese.

When your idol despise you, you think you won't hate him back. for the Chinese Wokeness is an alien word.

and yet they accept Yuan as payment for the iron ore, so who back down?

And he accept the challenge, a true leader deserving great praise.

Xi's policy was popular in 2021 when it came out, but as the covid lockdown kept going, economic hardship increased due to property sector collapse and tech sector firing thousands of tech workers. Then public discontent increased among the educated young people who have never seen hardship before. They never faced a shortage of high paid jobs. But in 2022 they did.

I do think Xi's policies are good and necessary for China no doubt. But they also reduce fast and easy economic growth fueled by debt which causes hardship for young people used to the easy times. When you combine with huge covid lockdowns, it caused alot of resentment.

Thankfully China finally got rid of lockdowns and Covid is now endemic with minimal deaths. But challenges still remain to balance policies that are important and necessary but unpopular.

drowingfish · Mar 12, 2023

tamsen_ikard said:
I think Covid lockdowns and Tech crackdown seriously dented CCP popularity in the educated middle-class. There used to be alot of popularity for CCP due to US attacks against China. But mood shifted in 2022 due to covid lockdown, property crisis, tech crackdown. Alot of young Chinese have become visibly anti-CCP to the point of wishing US to keep attacking China so that CCP falls. This then ofcourse led to the protests to end lockdowns and in those protests people called for CCP to step down.

I think Xi faces a dilemma here. He needs to keep pushing for China's self reliance, common prosperity and well run property market for China's long term well being. But the public wants fast growth and easy money of the old days. There is still a lot American worship in China. So, any policy that causes hardship only fuels more discontent against CCP.

Xi will have to balance policies that raises growth rate again while also looking at long term well being. Its a tough balancing act. We already see China essentially backing down against many hostile western countries like Australia. China has stopped sanctioning australia even though Australia has made no concessions. Its essentially China admitting defeat.

China will face a very tough decade going forward. But interestingly enough, Xi is probably the best leader with enough dose of pragmatism, nationalism and long term thinking to navigate these troubled times.

did you seriously conflate a bunch of kids with blank pieces of paper (they are from HK btw) with the entire middle class?

KYli · Mar 12, 2023

Governing is not a popularity contest. China isn't the West. Chinese leaders don't make policies for a short popularity boost.

Just look at how Avatar, Black Panther, and Ant man failed badly in the Chinese box office even after so much vocal supports from the liberals and youngsters in China. How rise of Chinese brands such as BYD, Anta, Li-Ning and the fall of Nike, GM, Toyota. I see that majority of young people do understand the importance of many policies and the need to be united against the Western containment.

If there are really a large number of young people that want China and CCP to fail, why Chinese brands are gaining more and more support from the average people especially the youngsters. Often, MSM has the tendency to exaggerate many negative news in China and amplify a small portion of the population to generalize any misgivings.

drowingfish said:
did you seriously conflate a bunch of kids with blank pieces of paper (they are from HK btw) with the entire middle class?

Many of them are coming from mainland women rights groups and are mainland activists that have strong tie with Western NGOs. It is just the same playbook like HK riots. Brainwashed young women and used them to lure young men to join the protests. Young men that wanted to impress young women would compete and outdo each others with reckless actions and ended up being part of the movement and radicalized.

ACuriousPLAFan · Mar 12, 2023

Taiban said:
View attachment 108985

Another worthy of note is Li Shangfu, who has been under US sanctions since 2018 for military cooperation with Russia, being appointed as the Minister of National Defense of China.

I'm guessing that the PLA CMC is wheezing loudly behind the scenes lmao

Sleepyjam · Mar 12, 2023

tamsen_ikard said:
I think Covid lockdowns and Tech crackdown seriously dented CCP popularity in the educated middle-class. There used to be alot of popularity for CCP due to US attacks against China. But mood shifted in 2022 due to covid lockdown, property crisis, tech crackdown. Alot of young Chinese have become visibly anti-CCP to the point of wishing US to keep attacking China so that CCP falls. This then ofcourse led to the protests to end lockdowns and in those protests people called for CCP to step down.

I think Xi faces a dilemma here. He needs to keep pushing for China's self reliance, common prosperity and well run property market for China's long term well being. But the public wants fast growth and easy money of the old days. There is still a lot American worship in China. So, any policy that causes hardship only fuels more discontent against CCP.

Xi will have to balance policies that raises growth rate again while also looking at long term well being. Its a tough balancing act. We already see China essentially backing down against many hostile western countries like Australia. China has stopped sanctioning australia even though Australia has made no concessions. Its essentially China admitting defeat.

China will face a very tough decade going forward. But interestingly enough, Xi is probably the best leader with enough dose of pragmatism, nationalism and long term thinking to navigate these troubled times.

You must be brainwashed by the anti Chinese propaganda so please don’t pretend to speak for the Chinese middle class, the young and the Chinese public. 2022 September poll from global times

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

The survey results show that Chinese young people are becoming more and more confident. For the question "Today, when it comes to Western countries, what is your first impression?", the respondents (39.3%) who chose "equivalent, level-viewing, no feeling" and other "level-viewing" attitudes, and those who chose "nothing Respondents (54.6%) with "great, despise, hate" and other "overlook" attitudes add up to more than 93%. In 2021, a total of 90% of Chinese young people choose these two attitudes.
At the same time, the number of respondents who chose to "look up" to the West, such as "envy, admiration, respect, and self-pity", showed a sharp drop. This year, 3.9% of Chinese young people choose to "look up" to the West, down by more than half from 2021 (8.1%). It is worth noting that the Global Public Opinion Survey Center conducted a survey last year on "How did you feel when you mentioned Western countries five years ago?" At that time, 37.2% of young people chose the attitude of "looking up".

Even with the covid lockdown China grow at 3% last year and is projected to grow over 5% this year. China’s self reliance actually helps China’s growth by eating away western market share. Common prosperity is supported by the people. In areas where it really matters such as renewables and EVs China is still growing fast.

China wasn’t even trying any serious sanctions against Australia and the party in power lost due to its failures on China. Now the current government is much less openly hostile to China, for example the Albanese government has approved the involvement by state-owned giant China Baowu in an AU$2 billion ($1.38 billion) iron ore joint venture so who admitted defeat? Who lost?

Overbom · Mar 12, 2023

ACuriousPLAFan said:
Another worthy of note is Li Shangfu, who has been under US sanctions since 2018 for military cooperation with Russia, being appointed as the Minister of National Defense of China.
View attachment 108989

I'm guessing that the PLA CMC is wheezing loudly behind the scenes lmao

Russia will very much welcome his appointment.

Btw can you imagine Austin meeting or talking with someone who is sanctioned lol. Hopefully that will make the US stop bothering Xi all the time about wanting to talk to the PLA.

tamsen_ikard · Mar 12, 2023

Sleepyjam said:
You must be brainwashed by the anti Chinese propaganda so please don’t pretend to speak for the Chinese middle class, the young and the Chinese public. 2022 September poll from global times
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Even with the covid lockdown China grow at 3% last year and is projected to grow over 5% this year. China’s self reliance actually helps China’s growth by eating away western market share. Common prosperity is supported by the people. In areas where it really matters such as renewables and EVs China is still growing fast.

China wasn’t even trying any serious sanctions against Australia and the party in power lost due to its failures on China. Now the current government is much less openly hostile to China, for example the Albanese government has approved the involvement by state-owned giant China Baowu in an AU$2 billion ($1.38 billion) iron ore joint venture so who admitted defeat? Who lost?

I hope what you said is true overall. But based on my observations, I saw intense anti-China sentiment among some young Chinese who have money and education to cross the firewall. In the past, these same people supported CCP and defended China against western attacks in western social media like twitter and reddit. Now the same Chinese speakers are either gone and replaced by intense China haters or they have themselves changed their minds.

There used to be alot of pro-China and pro-CCP opinions on Chinese speaking reddit subs and twitter accounts. Now its overwhelmingly negative. i notice intense hate for China in these places, its like they would rather see China split into different countries just placate to the west and attain "peace" and "democracy". This change happened in just 1 year.

Biscuits · Mar 12, 2023

tamsen_ikard said:
I hope what you said is true overall. But based on my observations, I saw intense anti-China sentiment among some young Chinese who have money and education to cross the firewall. In the past, these same people supported CCP and defended China against western attacks in western social media like twitter and reddit. Now the same Chinese speakers are either gone and replaced by intense China haters or they have themselves changed their minds.

There used to be alot of pro-China and pro-CCP opinions on Chinese speaking reddit subs and twitter accounts. Now its overwhelmingly negative. i notice intense hate for China in these places, its like they would rather see China split into different countries just placate to the west and attain "peace" and "democracy". This change happened in just 1 year.

Overwhelming activation of American paid commentators after the Ukraine war.

ACuriousPLAFan said:
Another worthy of note is Li Shangfu, who has been under US sanctions since 2018 for military cooperation with Russia, being appointed as the Minister of National Defense of China.
View attachment 108989

I'm guessing that the PLA CMC is wheezing loudly behind the scenes lmao

I don't think they care or even find this a consideration.

The general has never broken any law nor been credibly accused by anyone with international jurisdiction and that is the only factor for appointment that matters. We're after all a society where the people's chosen laws, not passion or the whims of foreign dictators, are the supreme rulers.

Chinese Internal Politics

tamsen_ikard

Junior Member

ansy1968

Brigadier

tamsen_ikard

Junior Member

drowingfish

Junior Member

KYli

Brigadier

ACuriousPLAFan

Brigadier

Sleepyjam

Junior Member

Overbom

Brigadier

tamsen_ikard

Junior Member

Biscuits

Colonel