Chinese Internal Politics

4Runner

4Runner

Junior Member
Registered Member
SanWenYu said:
We can now talk about some similarities between the PRC and 西汉. This is not a serious and scientific comparison, just some anecdotes for fun. Some of the comparisons are certainly exaggerated for the fun factor.

This is for those who can read Chinese and are somewhat familiar with the Chinese history.

西汉共和国
楚汉之争国共内战
杀韩信、彭越、英布等异姓诸侯王文革
吕氏篡权四人帮
周勃、陈平灭吕华、汪、叶逮捕四人帮
七国之乱周、薄、令
文景之治江、胡时代经济高速增长
与匈奴和亲、互市“夫妻论”、“贸易压舱石”
推恩令中央与地方博弈
盐铁酒官营改革开放 (1)
均输、平准反垄断
凿空西域一带一路
八校尉军改
独尊儒术团派失势

(1) 盐铁酒官营 and 改革开放 actually went the opposite directions. They are comparable IMO because both are major reforms to the existing economic systems of the time.
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Domestically, Han Wu Di had a more difficult job than Xi. Wu Di had to bide his time for over a decade before he could start doing any of his own things. Xi had a much better starting environment.

Internationally, Han Wu Di had an easier job than Xi. With Wei Qing (卫青) and Huo Qu Bing (霍去病) as his military leaders, and with Xiong Nu (匈奴) as a weaker enemy, it was a foregone conclusion very early on that Han dynasty would destroy Xiong Nu (匈奴) one way or another.

When Xi completes what I think he is going to do in the next 5 years, he may go down history in the same rank as Wu Di.
 
P

Petrolicious88

Senior Member
Registered Member
FairAndUnbiased said:
That's the problem right there. If Xi wants only his people then he has to give up a bunch of people more qualified but not necessarily exactly within his circle. Otherwise he has to deal with people outside his faction. The real shockwave is that meritocracy is no longer important, and opens the door for very very bad things to happen in the long term. The only other explanation is that ground force heavy means an internally focused PLA.

Having Xi in place for 3 terms may have been an emergency situation but now we're seeing complete breakdown of internal norms. When Xi leaves office, at best we'll see a Stalin-Khruschev transition, at worst, a Brezhnev-Gorbachev one.
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Xi personally vetted each member of the politburo. Loyalty is considered the most important. Technical competence and ability to manage breakthrough innovations are also important.
 
Z

zhangjim

Junior Member
Registered Member
SanWenYu said:
We can now talk about some similarities between the PRC and 西汉. This is not a serious and scientific comparison, just some anecdotes for fun. Some of the comparisons are certainly exaggerated for the fun factor.

This is for those who can read Chinese and are somewhat familiar with the Chinese history.

西汉共和国
楚汉之争国共内战
杀韩信、彭越、英布等异姓诸侯王文革
吕氏篡权四人帮
周勃、陈平灭吕华、汪、叶逮捕四人帮
七国之乱周、薄、令
文景之治江、胡时代经济高速增长
与匈奴和亲、互市“夫妻论”、“贸易压舱石”
推恩令中央与地方博弈
盐铁酒官营改革开放 (1)
均输、平准反垄断
凿空西域一带一路
八校尉军改
独尊儒术团派失势

(1) 盐铁酒官营 and 改革开放 actually went the opposite directions. They are comparable IMO because both are major reforms to the existing economic systems of the time.
Click to expand...
I dislike this comparison very much. History is not comparable.
Many contents in the list have no similarity at all.

We have to face a much more dangerous enemy than a backward civilization like the Huns，you have to admit that the United States is still a country with a dominant position in economy, military, culture and technology, although this position is already in jeopardy.
 
In4ser

In4ser

Junior Member
Minm said:
China is not the Soviet Union. Maybe a Blair-Brown transition is a better model. Or Kohl-Schröder. Many countries have had long serving, powerful leaders and they were fine after. I don't think meritocracy is dead and it's good that so many technocrats are being promoted
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Yes but less than 2 decades later, where are UK and Germany now? Entropy is an absolute law of the universe and no system or government last forever. Often a civilization's greatest strength later becomes its undoing as the reliance on it becomes an obstacle to other aspects of society. You can see it today in the West with liberalism and capitalism for example. These cultural attributes allowed the West to progress ahead of other civilizations by harnessing individual creativity and the resources of the free market. However, over time these things become gospel and have twisted into hyper-individuality and crony capitalism which is prevalent today.

Historically, China's centralized state and bureaucracy were both a blessing and a curse to it. While this cultural uniqueness provided a strong framework for people to prosper and grow and function effectively, it also came with its own problems. An overly strong centralized state is restrictive upon other forms of political institutions and social development with bureaucrats tending to be unimaginative and overly specialized people who follow strict adherence to rules and regulations. This rigid nature tends to calcify over a few generations and when the unexpected occurs, it becomes pathetically inept in recognizing opportunities and risks. Northern Song Dynasty couldn't adapt to the barbarian threat of Jin and the Ming and Qing were unable to recognize the potential benefits of Western technologies and trade.

Perhaps I just worry too much about things. I'm just glad I'm alive to see China rise to its historic greatness once again. Most people don't have the privilege to see their own ethnic civilization rise to such heights and I hope I die before it begins its eventual decline.
 
solarz

solarz

Brigadier
zhangjim said:
I dislike this comparison very much. History is not comparable.
Many contents in the list have no similarity at all.

We have to face a much more dangerous enemy than a backward civilization like the Huns，you have to admit that the United States is still a country with a dominant position in economy, military, culture and technology, although this position is already in jeopardy.
Click to expand...

While I agree that it's not that great of a comparison, you are mistaken about the Xiongnu.

Compared to early Han military, the Xiongnu held massive military advantages. Much like how the US is able to use its navy and air force to strike anywhere, the Xiongnu cavalry was able to raid Han territory with impunity. Reprisal attacks against the Xiongnu faced the extremely difficult challenge of providing logistics to an army over highly inhospitable land.

It was only with a lot of military reforms that the Han dynasty was able to defeat the Xiongnu.

As a side note, the Huns are the bastardized remnants of the Xiongnu who fled their ancestral homeland in the face of Han military might.
 
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