Chinese Geopolitics

Status
Not open for further replies.
J

Janiz

Senior Member
Blackstone said:
Solarz, I hope you're not trying to tell me the US is leading the Asia-China negotiations, with Obama in the White House. I mean Me. Lead-from-behind himself? Nope, the Obama-lead State Department is only in the middle of it because US friends and allies forced him into the role. If left alone, Obama rather play golf than tackle serious issues.


I agree the US is being taken for a ride by Japan, Philippines and Vietnam, aided and abetted by China-threat hawks and the lame stream media. On the other hand, China is also throwing its consider bulk around the region, making life rough for some of its neighbors. The bottom line is China should work with the US and be partners instead of adversaries; we don't have to be friends, but we shouldn't be enemies. Nobody wins with that scenario.


It isn't that easy or clear. Japan is the linchpin of US security network in Asia, and without it, the whole thing unravels at the seams. That's why America is forced to do whatever she must, short of war, to mollify Japan and keep the lid on an explosive situation. Also, Japan will be belligerent with or without the US, because winning the Third Sino-Japanese war of 1894 never produced desired outcomes nor lasting peace. Frankly, Japan fears a resurgent China will someday seek justice. And it's right to fear that.
Click to expand...
So I have to write this:
Blackstone said:
You don't know what you're talking about.
Click to expand...
 
tphuang

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
blackstone, I don't think the issue that your criticism of Chinese gov't repression of religion is out of line (I personally agree with it), but just that it creates flame wars in this thread. It's not easy to have a political thread in this forum, because we have a lot of passionate Chinese supporters and also people with more pro-western views that could produce combustive threads. And we are hoping people who are smart and knowledgeable about military don't get irritated and leave the forum or make a lot of in the moment heated comments that will force us to suspend them. So while I fully understand that a lot of members here want to talk about political topics, it's helpful to keep it to a minimum.
 
Blackstone

Blackstone

Brigadier
Janiz said:
Quote Originally Posted by Blackstone View Post
Solarz, I hope you're not trying to tell me the US is leading the Asia-China negotiations, with Obama in the White House. I mean Me. Lead-from-behind himself? Nope, the Obama-lead State Department is only in the middle of it because US friends and allies forced him into the role. If left alone, Obama rather play golf than tackle serious issues.


I agree the US is being taken for a ride by Japan, Philippines and Vietnam, aided and abetted by China-threat hawks and the lame stream media. On the other hand, China is also throwing its consider bulk around the region, making life rough for some of its neighbors. The bottom line is China should work with the US and be partners instead of adversaries; we don't have to be friends, but we shouldn't be enemies. Nobody wins with that scenario.


It isn't that easy or clear. Japan is the linchpin of US security network in Asia, and without it, the whole thing unravels at the seams. That's why America is forced to do whatever she must, short of war, to mollify Japan and keep the lid on an explosive situation. Also, Japan will be belligerent with or without the US, because winning the Third Sino-Japanese war of 1894 never produced desired outcomes nor lasting peace. Frankly, Japan fears a resurgent China will someday seek justice. And it's right to fear that.
So I have to write this:
Quote Originally Posted by Blackstone View Post
You don't know what you're talking about.
Click to expand...
What exactly do you take issue with the three points I made, Janiz?

1) Obama rather play golf than take the lead on important global issues
2) Japan, Vietnam, and Philippines have been working on the US to oppose China
3) Japan is the key to US security network in Asia, and US will go to great length to mollify it

I'd like to hear your reasoning.
 
broadsword

broadsword

Brigadier
Blackstone said:
We need to be realistic and admit there's no solution in ECS and SCS disputes without both China and the US. China can have wet dreams about pushing the US out of Asia, but that's just not going to happen, since America is a Pacific nation and she isn't going anywhere. The US, on the other hand, need to work with China to jointly run Asia as firsts among equals.
Click to expand...

It's not about China dreaming of US not getting involved. It's about letting only the regional countries solved their own problems. Getting a third party involved means third party interests and that complicates matters. Haven't you seen how much mess the US created in the ME? Don't use religion to draw support for your point of view.
 
J

jobjed

Captain
Blackstone said:
I agree the US is being taken for a ride by Japan, Philippines and Vietnam, aided and abetted by China-threat hawks and the lame stream media. On the other hand, China is also throwing its consider bulk around the region, making life rough for some of its neighbors. The bottom line is China should work with the US and be partners instead of adversaries; we don't have to be friends, but we shouldn't be enemies. Nobody wins with that scenario.
Click to expand...

Indeed, China and the US should be partners, but if the cost of being an American partner is the compromising of core values such as "we found these islands first, therefore it's ours", then China would loathe to commit to such a relationship.

It isn't that easy or clear. Japan is the linchpin of US security network in Asia, and without it, the whole thing unravels at the seams. That's why America is forced to do whatever she must, short of war, to mollify Japan and keep the lid on an explosive situation. Also, Japan will be belligerent with or without the US, because winning the Third Sino-Japanese war of 1894 never produced desired outcomes nor lasting peace. Frankly, Japan fears a resurgent China will someday seek justice. And it's right to fear that.
Click to expand...

If Japan fears being held to account for past misdeeds, then is the US is obstructing the course of justice? In any case, until the US views cooperation with China to be more important than maintaining the US 'security network', there will be a constant thorn in the Sino-US relations; it is, after all, difficult to work someone when the they have a military alliance that surrounds your house.
 
solarz

solarz

Brigadier
Blackstone said:
Solarz, I hope you're not trying to tell me the US is leading the Asia-China negotiations, with Obama in the White House. I mean Me. Lead-from-behind himself? Nope, the Obama-lead State Department is only in the middle of it because US friends and allies forced him into the role. If left alone, Obama rather play golf than tackle serious issues.
Click to expand...

No, I said there is no evidence of those other nations wanting a multilateral involvement of the US in their negotiations with China, other than wanting to use the US as a leverage. True multilateralism would mean all parties involved are sincere in their desire to reach a compromise.

Blackstone said:
I agree the US is being taken for a ride by Japan, Philippines and Vietnam, aided and abetted by China-threat hawks and the lame stream media. On the other hand, China is also throwing its consider bulk around the region, making life rough for some of its neighbors. The bottom line is China should work with the US and be partners instead of adversaries; we don't have to be friends, but we shouldn't be enemies. Nobody wins with that scenario.
Click to expand...

How do you partner with someone who keeps trying to undermine your other relations? When have we ever seen China play the "US threat" card with South Korea, Malaysia, Cambodia, Myanmar, or Pakistan?
 
solarz

solarz

Brigadier
t2contra said:
It's not about China dreaming of US not getting involved. It's about letting only the regional countries solved their own problems. Getting a third party involved means third party interests and that complicates matters. Haven't you seen how much mess the US created in the ME? Don't use religion to draw support for your point of view.
Click to expand...

Exactly! How do you resolve issues when a third party whose interest is to keep those issues alive keeps getting involved?
 
A

advill

Junior Member
It is good that China plans to discuss the disagreements re: territorial waters with the effected Southeast Asian countries. However, China should consider adhering to the International Law (UNCLOS) in settling the disputes in the South China Sea. BTW, the history of US as a Asia-Pacific power dates to the period of WW II. We sometimes forget that the USN defeated the IJN at various major battles in the Pacific, which helped turn the tide of the war. Also, the US assisted the allied Forces (inc. British, Australian, NZ) in Southeast Asia; and with the KMT and Communist to defeat the Japanese aggressors in China. The US Air Force also helped form during the WW II "Flying Tigers" in China; and the USAF pilots were actively involved in the air battles then. With this history of a benevolent and not a colonialist US, it is obvious that a number of Asian Nations & Australia will not forget their American friends. Looking at the world map, the Pacific Ocean which laps the Western Coast of the USA is definitely the responsibility of America. Also with Guam, an American territory, and defense treaties with some Asian countries and Australia, the Asia-Pacific is therefore within the sphere of American interest. China is also considered an important friend. As a Superpower it can contribute greatly to peace, economic progress and development of the Asia-Pacfic region.


solarz said:
China and the US are coming from two completely different perspectives. Where the US views international relations through the lens of a "social order", China views them as a series of bilateral relationships.

You talk about "Asian affairs" and "Pacific nations". None of that means anything to China, who only talks about relations with Japan, South Korea, Vietnam, Philippines, etc.

Where you think US should always have a say in "Pacific affairs", China views such statements as intrusions in their bilateral negotiations with the corresponding nations.

In other words, China wants to negotiate with its neighbors, individually, without the US always butting in and muddying up the issues.
Click to expand...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top