Chinese Geopolitics

Really? Who are the people who did the "World Survey report"? Were they able to conduct a detailed survey (with complete freedom i.e. without interference whatsoever) of the Chinese people in China? Several surveys have been conducted, BUT their reliability need to be authenticated by professional & unbiased bodies. Agreed?

t2contra said:

In adding to what Blackstone wrote, according to the World Value Survey reported here

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

, the Chinese people feel they have more freedom than democratic countries like Spain, Singapore, Netherlands, Germany, Japan, South Korea, etc.

It is a subjective survey, asking people's feelings. But it matters. Chinese dynastic emperors did try to rule well. The seismograph was invented to record directions of earthquakes so that the emperor would not be fleeced by the people into paying compensation for non-existent destruction.

Click to expand...

advill said:

Really? Who are the people who did the "World Survey report"? Were they able to conduct a detailed survey (with complete freedom i.e. without interference whatsoever) of the Chinese people in China? Several surveys have been conducted, BUT their reliability need to be authenticated by professional & unbiased bodies. Agreed?

Click to expand...

Sorry, but no, disagreed entirely.

You seem to have this idea that the Chinese people live in fear of a gestapo arresting them whenever they speak ill of the government. That may be the image being pushed by western media, but it has no basis in reality.

If you spent any time interacting with Chinese in China, you'll quickly see how vocal they are about government problems.

advill said:

Really? Who are the people who did the "World Survey report"? Were they able to conduct a detailed survey (with complete freedom i.e. without interference whatsoever) of the Chinese people in China? Several surveys have been conducted, BUT their reliability need to be authenticated by professional & unbiased bodies. Agreed?

Click to expand...

are in the business of conducting surveys. We are only patronizing if we question their professionalism. If they encountered interference, they could add a highlight note. Still, they are not like journalists who love to mention the sentence that Chinese netizens "widely disputed" government data whenever they feel that the unsavory data are not bad enough.

solarz said:

Sorry, but no, disagreed entirely.

You seem to have this idea that the Chinese people live in fear of a gestapo arresting them whenever they speak ill of the government. That may be the image being pushed by western media, but it has no basis in reality.

If you spent any time interacting with Chinese in China, you'll quickly see how vocal they are about government problems.

Click to expand...

In my country, we watch in awe the Chinese immigrants and tourists who protest seemingly on the fly, so unlike my countrymen.

Blackstone said:

True, but that's probably due to the plutocrats helping SOEs, because they have their hands in those cookie jars. Nevertheless, Huawei (reportedly a private firm) is doing very well indeed.

Click to expand...

True, but Huawei is way to too small or any private companies to have as much of an economic impact in the overall Chinese economy to get 500 million people out poverty.

solarz said:

Sorry, but no, disagreed entirely.

You seem to have this idea that the Chinese people live in fear of a gestapo arresting them whenever they speak ill of the government. That may be the image being pushed by western media, but it has no basis in reality.

If you spent any time interacting with Chinese in China, you'll quickly see how vocal they are about government problems.

Click to expand...

The problem is CCP is not going to let people consolidate their opinion into one.
People are able to vent their frustration at an individual level but grouping is not allowed and disbanded before they develop a consensus.

>>>>>>>>>> Removed reference to off topic issue causing arguements which are themselves off topic <<<<<<<<<<

So clearly my oirginal reply still continued the conversation even though I tried to leave religion out, so I do apologize for that.

But to be entirely clear, keep religion out. I don't even know what building churches have anything to do with China Geopolitics. Please respect the thread and stay on topic.

tphuang said:

Chang and Chanos are different. Chang has his beliefs because his personal beliefs against China. Chanos has made a career shorting different asset classes. He sees China as a huge bubble, as does many people. You can believe one way or the other, but Chanos is not the only economist with that position. Please check up on the extremely respected Andy Xie and what he has to say with regard to the Chinese economy.

Click to expand...

agree there are differences between Chang and Chanos. Chang has an almost pathological hatred for China. Chanos is just too proud to admit he was wrong.

solarz said:

You seem to have this idea that the Chinese people live in fear of a gestapo arresting them whenever they speak ill of the government. That may be the image being pushed by western media, but it has no basis in reality.

Click to expand...

Well, that's true... unless you're going to make your views public. If you do that on family level - that's fine. If you do that with the people you work with - that's fine as well. Everyone does that. But when when you try to make things happen - oh, that's when the services opens your paper file and you'll get under the eye of the secret services. And then you can fall into problems at work, in private life etc. Basic reeducation and if you don't understand the message they will come with some other 'things' and those guys don't joke. They can kill people. That's how it rolls in every country aside from totalitarian regimes. In the West democraton countries, that you despise so much, even though your way to China is open, they rarely make the last one thing come true as you have family, friends etc to talk about that in medias. In totalitarian states - you have only one way out - pull off. It works like mafia but you don't have to steal here - word is enough to break your bones. They don't write stories about that in Chinese medias? Yeah, because Western world made it a normal thing and that's a big 'no' when you have got every string in your hand.

Janiz said:

Well, that's true... unless you're going to make your views public. If you do that on family level - that's fine. If you do that with the people you work with - that's fine as well. Everyone does that. But when when you try to make things happen - oh, that's when the services opens your paper file and you'll get under the eye of the secret services. And then you can fall into problems at work, in private life etc. Basic reeducation and if you don't understand the message they will come with some other 'things' and those guys don't joke. They can kill people. That's how it rolls in every country aside from totalitarian regimes. In the West democraton countries, that you despise so much, even though your way to China is open, they rarely make the last one thing come true as you have family, friends etc to talk about that in medias. In totalitarian states - you have only one way out - pull off. It works like mafia but you don't have to steal here - word is enough to break your bones.

Click to expand...

you don't know what you are talking about.
you can say whatever you want on the Chinese internet. the government doesn't care. this forum has more censorship and self-censorship than many Chinese internet forums.

shen said:

you don't know what you are talking about.
you can say whatever you want on the Chinese internet. the government doesn't care. this forum has more censorship and self-censorship than many Chinese internet forums.

Click to expand...

And I'm sure you live 1000 miles away from Beijing. At best in Hong Kong or Singapore. Am I right?

As I said - they don't care until you'll enter a certain stage. You'll get only your paper file with big black Hanzi flamaster written cover. And they keep those in paper to burn it or keep it. They won't put it into some kind of network so that it could be ereased with one click.

Unfortunately - I saw those things when they even wrote what kind of ice creams the suspect liked.