SamuraiBlue
Captain
Well according to solarz and it didn't even start so what is your point?
Chinese Geopolitics
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Well according to solarz and it didn't even start so what is your point?
Equation
Lieutenant General
If they ALL felt and think like that, that means their history books needs some serious major revision.
Blackstone
Brigadier
My point is your assertion, and I quote, "Basically China never accepted the principle of Magna Carta like most all other democratic states." is wrong on at least two counts; late Qing Dynasty's Constitutional Monarchy reforms and Sun's nascent democracy movement.
Oh I am pretty serious, and you are of course entitled to your freedoms.
Rectangular earth, which I brought up, was not just a figure of speech. it was an idea that people killed other people over in the 16th century for whatever reason a round earth violated their beliefs which a rectangular earth have offered. Obviously a case in point to show what had been a majority belief was wrong and therefore invalidate your arguments based on "most reasonable people"
You are free to digress.
That's a funny one! Cited from the wiki:
"Magna Carta was the first document imposed upon a King of England by a group of his subjects, the feudal barons, in an attempt to limit his powers by law and protect their rights."
( )
The document is from 1215 and the barons had never heard about democracy. And if someone had told them about it they would have considered it idiotic.
Btw I read in a Dutch language book that democracy in the sense of giving everyone a vote to administer an institution was a little earlier introduced in European universities, a vote for every professor and every student and that it was copied from universities in a civilized part of the World, i.e. Muslim universities.
plawolf
Lieutenant General
The way the western world deify 'democracy' amauses me greatly. I see many comical parallels between this practice and the likes of how Chinese people during the cultural revolution would fanatically thank and credit the Party for all their accomplishment.
Both are complete fallacies.
I also see many alarming similarities between democracy and communism. Both are fine ideals that work well enough at the micro level, but suffers terribly, and basically fails utterly when you try to scale that up to the modern national level.
Gasp in horrible and decry me a heretic, but I challenge anyone to find an actual example of a working democrasy other then the Greek city states that spawned the ideal.
What most people call 'democracies' these days are in fact republics governed by laws, not the ballot box.
Having seen first hand the fallacies of the cult of the Party and the fantasy of communism, I would hope and expect the Chinese to be far more rational when it comes to appraising democracies.
I have no problem with democracy other than the fact that it doesn't really work, my main problem is with the way some people seem to almost deify the concept and defend it with blind fanatical fever that rivals the most devout jihadist. The reason I have a problem with these people is that they stand in the way of progress.
Case in point, just look at how the western polticial sciences have stagnated and withered in the last 70 years. Rather than seeking to find a better way of governing ourselves, western polticial science has I stand devoted the lion share of its resources and efforts towards defending and promoting democracy.
Winston Churchill is often quoted as saying democracy is the worst form of government save all the others.
The zealots of the church of democrasy would often quote that to silence all criticism, but being the least worst hardly seems like something to brag and gloat about to me.
Rather than see that as a jaded admission of failure, I would rather view Churchill's words as a challenge to do better. But that cannot happen if our brightest minds are indoctrinated from a young age to view democrasy as some Holy Grail that cannot be surpassed and bettered.
Both are complete fallacies.
I also see many alarming similarities between democracy and communism. Both are fine ideals that work well enough at the micro level, but suffers terribly, and basically fails utterly when you try to scale that up to the modern national level.
Gasp in horrible and decry me a heretic, but I challenge anyone to find an actual example of a working democrasy other then the Greek city states that spawned the ideal.
What most people call 'democracies' these days are in fact republics governed by laws, not the ballot box.
Having seen first hand the fallacies of the cult of the Party and the fantasy of communism, I would hope and expect the Chinese to be far more rational when it comes to appraising democracies.
I have no problem with democracy other than the fact that it doesn't really work, my main problem is with the way some people seem to almost deify the concept and defend it with blind fanatical fever that rivals the most devout jihadist. The reason I have a problem with these people is that they stand in the way of progress.
Case in point, just look at how the western polticial sciences have stagnated and withered in the last 70 years. Rather than seeking to find a better way of governing ourselves, western polticial science has I stand devoted the lion share of its resources and efforts towards defending and promoting democracy.
Winston Churchill is often quoted as saying democracy is the worst form of government save all the others.
The zealots of the church of democrasy would often quote that to silence all criticism, but being the least worst hardly seems like something to brag and gloat about to me.
Rather than see that as a jaded admission of failure, I would rather view Churchill's words as a challenge to do better. But that cannot happen if our brightest minds are indoctrinated from a young age to view democrasy as some Holy Grail that cannot be surpassed and bettered.
Equation
Lieutenant General
What Blackstone is trying to say is basically the period towards the end the of the Qing dynasty where China started to see the SHARING of power that are steps leading towards democracy, just like the Magna Carter did to England. It doesn't mean an immediate democracy as we see it today. China was facing a very difficult period of strife and foreign interventions and many Chinese of ALL different classes and education level were ready turn a new page, a new ruler, a revolution to replace the current inept one even if it means ending the feudal system that had lasted for millenniums.
SamuraiBlue
Captain
That part I understand but it failed to happen going from one dynasty to the next followed by another.
They did not call themselves emperor and changed from an individual to an oligopoly system but there is/was no check and balance system and there is still no peaceful mechanism to transfer authority from one regime to the next without a civil war/revolution breaking out.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
the Magna Carta was established as the King John of England was deeply establishing a massive economic debt due to war with France. John was impoverishing and the barons wanted something in exchange for there continued support. It would still take Century's before the English Bill of rights would really lock the Royalty out of power and establish the separately standing Head of State vs Head of Government.
Now then being absolutely accurate there are no true Democracies in existence in any national governance. There are parliamentary constitutional Monarchy's, Absolute Monarchy's, Theocratic semi representative republics, Military Dictatorships, Communist authoritarian regimes, United Federations, Confederations, Constitutional representative Republics, Warlord Juntas, Socialist authoritarian republics, Theocratic Absolute Monarchy's(The Vatican) and everyone's favorite the worlds only Socialist Theocratic Monarchal Military authoritarian regime ( North Korea) a nation so confusing its actual lists a Corpse (Kim Il Song) as head of State. But not a single True Democracy.
The Cry of Democracy is really more a Ideal then that of practicalities. And national policy cannot be set by Idealialigy over reality. And so we end up with the cries of Hypocrite and the arguments and the shooting and shouting ( hopefully more of the latter then the sooner).
Here, we have the US pivoting to Asia but really the middle east in turmoil and deserve more US attention over there. The traditional allies need more American presence to resolve the various conflict due the wilfull withdrawal of US engagement and attention. Ukraine, Iraq, Iran, Israel, Egypt...all these, need engagement and security commitment from US.
A very sad case if this is true. Innocents caught in crossfire...
A very sad case if this is true. Innocents caught in crossfire...
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