Chinese-European transport helo project

PLAAF to buy 150 polish helicopters

Sources claim that China and Poland has signed a contract for the delivery of 150 helicopters in the next 10 years.
The types suposely will be PZL Sokol, PZL Kania and SW-4 choppers.

Re: PLAAF to buy 150 polish helicopters

Riverman said:

Sources claim that China and Poland has signed a contract for the delivery of 150 helicopters in the next 10 years.
The types suposely will be PZL Sokol, PZL Kania and SW-4 choppers.

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Huh? I thought Poland is part of EU? Unless the helicopter bought are not militarise version, I believe this cannot be true... because, there is an ongoing arms embargoment... unless this embargoment is being lifted, this deal cannot be realised.

Huh? I thought Poland is part of EU?

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mods note >> It is. That is why I merged the threads.

bd popeye super moderator

maozedong said:

why China want to buy Poland's PZL Swidnik ?
China's Z-8F already has been mass production and try to export for sell. Z-8F use Canada Pratt & Whitney PT6B-67A engine, It had been many improvements, had a broad application in China.

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China has started to assemble Russian-made multi-purpose transport helicopters Mi -171 in 2007, China plans to produce in 2008 of at least 20 Mi -171, spare parts available from the Ulan-Ude aviation povide, after which China's annual output will reach 80 of Mi-171.

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Z-8 and Mi-17 have nothing to do with the Polish helicopter. They are completely in different weight class. They are just challenging Z-11, which are more expensive to produce and not as good.

Huh? I thought Poland is part of EU? Unless the helicopter bought are not militarise version, I believe this cannot be true... because, there is an ongoing arms embargoment... unless this embargoment is being lifted, this deal cannot be realised.

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China buys plenty of helicopter from the Europeans and some of which are converted for military use. Embargo doesn't factor in here.

tphuang said:

Z-8 and Mi-17 have nothing to do with the Polish helicopter. They are completely in different weight class. They are just challenging Z-11, which are more expensive to produce and not as good.


China buys plenty of helicopter from the Europeans and some of which are converted for military use. Embargo doesn't factor in here.

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I've heard the Z-11s have been a problem for the PLAAF (The armed recon Z-11 was outright cancelled recently) but I didn't think the problems were this drastic! The SW-4 is a very proven design and PZL has an excellent record with their helicopters. As for the embargo, you're right, afterall nearly all of China's modern helicopter fleet (Excluding Mi-8 variants) are based on European design that were subsequently armed with little to no fuss. Given the situation with the Z-11 we can probably expect the same with the SW-4 (I wonder what they're going to designate Chinese built SW-4s as though....)

China AC-313 on its maiden flight on the 18th of this month.

about SW-4, China dose not buy it, I got the articl below:

为争抢民用直升机“蛋糕”，我省启动九江红鹰飞机制造项目，并将其列为省“十一五”重点工程。该项目由波兰斯维德尼克公司和九江红鹰科技发展有限公司共同投资6000万美元兴建，主要生产、总装和销售SW－4等型号的直升机。预计项目达产后可年产39架直升机，出口额超过1．4亿美元。2月25日，SW- 4型民用直升机已在南昌昌北国际机场成功首飞。预计红鹰公司今年就将生产销售3架直升机，产值1000万美元以上。

Competing for civilian helicopters, sharing the "cake", Jiangxi province started Jiujiang Red Eagle aircraft project, and listed it as province "11-5" key projects. The project Bolansiwei Danica and Jiujiang Red Eagle Technology Development Co Ltd. jointly invested 60 million U.S. dollars to build, the main production, assembly and sale of SW-4 helicopters and other models. Expected that the project put into operation to produce 39 helicopters, exports more than 140 million U.S. dollars. February 25, SW-4-type civil helicopters have been successful first flight in Nanchang Changbei International Airport, Red Eagle is expected to produce and sell this year will be three helicopters, the output value more than 10 million U.S. dollars.

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the source from the same link:

作为我国直升机科研生产基地，昌飞公司近年来也动作频频。由昌河和意大利阿古斯特公司共同投资生产一种机型为A109E、中国代号为CA109的直升机，更成为民用直升机市场的佼佼者。北京市公安局和中央电视台均订购了该机型，去年9月，该机型直升机还首次出口意大利，成功开拓国际市场。

As China's helicopter research and production base, Chang Fei's moves in recent years frequently. Changhe and the Italian Agusta company by the joint venture to produce a model for the A109E, China, code-named CA109 helicopters have become the market leader in civil helicopters. Beijing Municipal Public Security Bureau and China Central Television have ordered the aircraft last September, the model helicopter for the first time exported to Italy and successfully develop the international market.

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:nana:

exclusive AC-313 helos!


8F make her maiden flight in Shanxi helos plant.

Re: exclusive AC-313 helos!

AC313三月首飞 中国将继续研制超米-26重型直升机(组图)

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送交者: ningshui 2010年03月15日18:51:35 于 [世界军事论坛] 发送悄悄话



中国自主研制的AC313型13吨级民用直升机已在江西首飞(CCTV新闻截图)

每经记者 喻春来 发自北京

我国将在未来几年填补航空工业没有民用重型直升机的空白。

3月11日，中国航空工业集团公司科技委主任、全国人大代表张洪飚在接受《每日经济新闻》采访时透露，中航工业正在积极准备自主研制20吨级以上的民用重型直升机，初步的投资额估计不会少于20亿美元（约合人民币137亿元）。

此项目正与俄方相关公司商谈合作。不过，合作上将坚持中方为主的原则，不排除与俄方将在研发资金投入及研制工作上各承担50%份额的合作方式。

处于经济技术性研究期

张洪飚称，中航工业已成立一个项目工作组，专门负责民用重型直升机的项目论证，包括投资额、开发周期、产量规模等，项目正在进行经济技术性研究。

重型直升机是指起飞重量大于20吨的直升机，主要在森林防火、起重吊装、人员客货运输、城市消防、反恐维稳及应急救援等活动中起到重要作用。

“按发达国家研发直升机的经验，1吨的直升机需要研发投入1亿美元，20吨以上的估计要超过20亿美元。”张洪飚说。

据了解，我国直升机行业已成功研制13吨级、4吨级、2吨级，并批量交付使用，目前正在研发7吨级、1吨级，基本形成从1吨级到13吨级的系列化格局。

张洪飚说，重型直升机在我国尚属空白，是我国急需发展的重大项目，我国不能没有自己的重型直升机，要坚持自主研制，辅之国际合作是研制的一条可行途径。

对于未来重型直升机项目选址问题，张洪飚说:“这个问题比较敏感，该项目尚未具体确定落在中航工业哪个公司，落在哪个城市也没有定。”

此前，中航工业直升机公司董事长李方勇透露，正在研制的重型直升机最大起飞重量在20吨~30吨级，将在5至6年内研制成功。



中国自主研制的AC313型13吨级民用直升机已在江西首飞(CCTV新闻截图)

或与俄方合作

国产大飞机专家委员会委员冯培德说，国内目前不能生产，但又不可缺的少量重型米-26直升机只能在国外少量购置或采取租赁方式解决。

张洪飚说，20吨级直升机的研发可能和俄罗斯合作，不过，他以不方便为由拒绝透露俄方相关公司的具体名称。

据《每日经济新闻》记者了解，早在2008年，俄罗斯直升机公司就与中方签署联合研制重型民用直升机的谅解备忘录。张洪飚称，由于金融危机，俄方在投资资金上有压力，加之俄已有重型直升机米-26直升机，俄方投资上有顾虑，合作进展缓慢。目前接触重新开始。

张洪飚说:“可采用的合作方式多种多样，比如50:50的风险共担，坚持‘以我为主，公平合作，共享结果’，除整机合作外，主要配套和部件也可以合作。”

李方勇称，中俄合作研制的新型号与米-26完全不同，技术水平更先进，经济性更符合市场化需求，研发可能也将与中国与欧洲联合生产的直-15一样，采取研发资金投入及研制工作上各承担50%的方式。

在航空产业的合作上，外方一般不会向中方提供核心技术。张鸿飚说:“核心技术不要指望别人给你，合作是为了学到研制的理念、流程、方法，最终核心技术需要自己突破。”

中航工业副总工程师孙聪透露，由中航工业自主研制的AC313大型民用直升机将于3月在江西首飞。该型机最大起飞重量为13.8吨。



值得注意的是，AC313型的“13吨级”与米-26的“20吨级”是不能直接对比的，AC313型的“13吨级”是指起飞总重，而米-26的“20吨级”是指载重量，若按同样的分类标准，米-26应该属于“55吨级”超级直升机，比AC313(直-8系列)大出很多。





中航工业副总工程师孙聪透露，由中航工业自主研制的AC313大型民用直升机将于3月在江西首飞



米-171直升机载运能力接近直-8系列，尤其是价廉物美。成为中国陆军航空兵的主力直升机，在汶川地震救援中发挥了重大作用。



中航工业直升机公司的生产厂房

AC313是借鉴原有型号平台，采用最新成熟先进技术，按照国际通行的适航标准、采用与国际接轨的适航审定程序自主研发的全新民用直升机。

该型机采用先进的涡轴发动机、大功率传输能力的传动系统、球柔性复合材料旋翼系统以及综合化的航电系统，使用维护性和舒适性改进，结构、系统安全性全面升级，能满足高温、高寒和山区等复杂地区的使用要求。