Chinese Engine Development

siegecrossbow said:

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Orca claims that the sentiment is correct but the graph showing flight envelope is for illustrative purposes only. No data leak.

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As if they'd just post an actual graph made from actual data, yeah. It's a "if the F119 looks like this, the WS-15 would look like..." type graph.

But even so, it's real and important information as one of our first official confirmations of what the WS-15 does better than the F119 aside from at least matching it at any point in the envelope. It shows that the WS-15 is the crystallization of almost 30 years of technological progression (acoustic, combustion, etc.) over the F119.

However though, I want to stress again that Orca is not an actual professional like the presenter in the field of aeroengines. Professor Sun wasn't exactly modest in the presentation as to what him and his team achieved (rightfully so tbh, this is no small problem), yet Orca still is hesitant as to fully acknowledging it for whatever reason.

Like, mate. You don't know this better than an actual professor. I wouldn't put too much weight on Orca's words on aeroengine specifications.

Alfa_Particle said:

Orca is not an actual professional like the presenter in the field of aeroengines.

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Exactly
Personally I would trust The Professor of Beijing University of Aeronautics and Astronautics, external director of AECC, Chief scientist of the 973 project over anyone when such topics are brought up.

Ironhide said:

Exactly
Personally I would trust The Professor of Beijing University of Aeronautics and Astronautics, external director of AECC, Chief scientist of the 973 project over anyone when such topics are brought up.

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But his claim is legit, this graph is there just for demonstration ,to elaborate that his（team’s) work tremendously improved WS15’s low altitude/ speed performance , not saying “we made a better version of F119”

Philister said:

But his claim is legit, this graph is there just for demonstration ,to elaborate that his（team’s) work tremendously improved WS15’s low altitude/ speed performance , not saying “we made a better version of F119”

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Isn't that literally a better version of the F119 though?

The graphs are for demonstration, yeah, but the point is that the tech they've incorporated is so good that it exceeded the F119's envelope. That's literally what they're saying.

Alfa_Particle said:

Isn't that literally a better version of the F119 though?

The graphs are for demonstration, yeah, but the point is that the tech they've incorporated is so good that it exceeded the F119's envelope. That's literally what they're saying.

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Is F110 a better version of AL31? No , they are not the same thing , if someone made a graph that precisely shows the performance of each engines , they will look very different

Philister said:

Is F110 a better version of AL31? No , they are not the same thing , if someone made a graph that precisely shows the performance of each engines , they will look very different

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You're arguing semantics here.

When I said "the WS-15 is a better version of the F119" I meant that as in the WS-15 matches the F119 at any point in its envelop and also exceeds it. Both engines have a clear goal as to which flight regimes to prioritise (supersonic), so yes, I can say that the WS-15 is a better version of the F119, cause the former is a direct counterpart to the latter. Your F110/AL-31 analogy isn't exactly suitable here.

Besides, the F110 family is largely superior to the AL-31 family.

Philister said:

if someone made a graph that precisely shows the performance of each engines

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It's called "thrust curves."

Philister said:

they will look very different

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Not if their design goals are similar.

What will look "very different" as you've described though, is (I would guess) the thrust curves of the F414 vs the WS-19, since the design goals of both are very different (unlike the F119 and the WS-15).

Supposedly WS-15 and CJ-2000 will both enter mass production next year. Can’t wait for the massive outpouring of cope when that happens lmfao.

siegecrossbow said:

Supposedly WS-15 and CJ-2000 will both enter mass production next year. Can’t wait for the massive outpouring of cope when that happens lmfao.

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WS-15 was supposed to reach FRP this year though

I know Ayi said "next year" today but it contradicts with what Orca (and multiple others IIRC?) said previously. Orca may be somewhat iffy with engine specs, but he's should be very credible in terms of timeframes.

P.S. Ayi could've meant it in lunar calendar sense /s

F-119 and WS-15 are 30 years apart..

its common to have better product after 30 years. this is down the line development process. material science , manufacturing process like 3D printing , additive manufacturing techniques , better tools..

if anyone read my old massages on this thread. i have said this long ago, WS-15 will be better machine as compare to F-119.

Professor Sun is not a roadside kid. he is external director of AECC and Chief scientist of the 973 project. his words are basically official confirmation. just like what Liu Daxiang. these people are the highest authorities in mainland when it comes to turbofan Engines.

@siegecrossbow Orca basically trying to be humble. that's his style. Professor Sun words are ultimate and final. sometimes i even don't understand the mentality of our people.. why they always be defensive.

Philister said:

Is F110 a better version of AL31? No , they are not the same thing , if someone made a graph that precisely shows the performance of each engines , they will look very different

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F110/AL-31 analogy isn't exactly suitable here..

Three things measure the Engine quality

1.Design
2.Material
3.Manufacturing process

its obvious, both WS-15/F-119 are different. but comes under same category class propulsion like thrust , supercruise capability. this is why people do often compare both machines. and F-119 is basically a benchmark for twin engine stealth fighter jet. so WS-15 is also in the same category. but inside WS-15 will be a completely different machine.

siegecrossbow said:

Supposedly WS-15 and CJ-2000 will both enter mass production next year. Can’t wait for the massive outpouring of cope when that happens lmfao.

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Alfa_Particle said:

WS-15 was supposed to reach FRP this year though

I know Ayi said "next year" today but it contradicts with what Orca (and multiple others IIRC?) said previously. Orca may be somewhat iffy with engine specs, but he's should be very credible in terms of timeframes.

P.S. Ayi could've meant it in lunar calendar sense /s

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first of all WS-15 production gradually increasing. but this year production will increase by many folds. that is for sure.

CJ-2000 prototypes has been rolled out. in July last year, the fan rotor of Whole engine passed dynamic balance test.. The fan rotor in a high-bypass turbofan engine is the large, front-mounted blade wheel that draws in air and accelerates it to create thrust. CJ-2000 exceed all the parameters during test.

next step will be ice and bird test..

This facility specifically build for these type of tests for large high bypass turbofan engines. maximum capacity of this test bench is upto 450KN.