Chinese Engine Development

BoraTas said:

Any number below 14 tons is not credible and according to the slides we saw earlier the WS-20's thrust can be as high as 16 tons.

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Since the WS-20 is similar in size to the CFM56, the thrust should be around 31,000-35,000lbf. Four of them would be sufficient to power an A340 size aircraft. In other words, should China face additional sanctions, the C929 could be redesign along the lines of Il-96 and A340-300. Much less fuel efficiency compared to the current design, but still allow China to sustain its own commercial aircraft industry (plus Xi would no longer have to rely on Boeing for his own foreign travels).

ChongqingHotPot92 said:

Since the WS-20 is similar in size to the CFM56, the thrust should be around 31,000-35,000lbf. Four of them would be sufficient to power an A340 size aircraft. In other words, should China face additional sanctions, the C929 could be redesign along the lines of Il-96 and A340-300. Much less fuel efficiency compared to the current design, but still allow China to sustain its own commercial aircraft industry (plus Xi would no longer have to rely on Boeing for his own foreign travels).

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No point going with a less fuel efficient engine tbh. Better to wait for the CJ-2000.

ChongqingHotPot92 said:

Since the WS-20 is similar in size to the CFM56, the thrust should be around 31,000-35,000lbf. Four of them would be sufficient to power an A340 size aircraft. In other words, should China face additional sanctions, the C929 could be redesign along the lines of Il-96 and A340-300. Much less fuel efficiency compared to the current design, but still allow China to sustain its own commercial aircraft industry (plus Xi would no longer have to rely on Boeing for his own foreign travels).

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LOL.

bro. how can you forget CJ-1000/CJ-2000 and AEF-1300

WS-20 will never convert into something like what you wish. this engine is strictly for military. for civilian purpose they design AEF-1300, civilian variant of WS-20. showcase in Zhuhai air show2022.



Yangtze Series engine program going with full pace.

sunnymaxi said:

LOL.

bro. how can you forget CJ-1000/CJ-2000 and AEF-1300

WS-20 will never convert into something like what you wish. this engine is strictly for military. for civilian purpose they design AEF-1300, civilian variant of WS-20. showcase in Zhuhai air show2022.

View attachment 109686

Yangtze Series engine program going with full pace.

View attachment 109687View attachment 109688View attachment 109690View attachment 109692

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Maybe CJ-1000 will be ready slightly before 2030, but all the other engines (say CJ2000) will be decades away. But the US-China strategic competition is already here. It is only a matter of time before China becomes completely cut off from access to Western engines. Thus, relying on "inferior", but still high-bypass engines like WS-20 become the only stop gap option.

ChongqingHotPot92 said:

Maybe CJ-1000 will be ready slightly before 2030, but all the other engines (say CJ2000) will be decades away. But the US-China strategic competition is already here. It is only a matter of time before China becomes completely cut off from access to Western engines. Thus, relying on "inferior", but still high-bypass engines like WS-20 become the only stop gap option.

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bro with due respect. your information is seriously outdated.

i m posting again one last time only for you.

CJ-1000 airworthiness certificate procedure officially begun. it will take 2-3 more years before engine will get certificate for small scale production. most probably 2025-26 if everything goes well.



now lets come to super heavy thrust CJ-2000 turbofan engine.

Core machine ignited in March 2020 and in summer last year, engine has entered the low-voltage component telemetry system hardware configuration bidding stage. In other words, CJ-2000 has entered the verification machine bench test stage. This is the most critical step for aero engines!

during Zhuhai Air Show 2021, AECC released the promotional video of CJ-2000 engine for the very first time and in that video they officially announced 2030 date. high chances this is certification date. and it is the first time Chinese aero engine maker publicly announced something very important. here is the screenshot.


by 2030, CJ-2000 will be ready to serve.

there are more spicy news related China's next super large Turbofan engine in the line of RR's Ultrafan and GE9X. but it is irrelevant to post now. so leave it for some other time.

ChongqingHotPot92 said:

Maybe CJ-1000 will be ready slightly before 2030, but all the other engines (say CJ2000) will be decades away. But the US-China strategic competition is already here. It is only a matter of time before China becomes completely cut off from access to Western engines. Thus, relying on "inferior", but still high-bypass engines like WS-20 become the only stop gap option.

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You can rely on inferior products for military uses but for commercial use it’s worse to sink resources into a product that’s not competitive than to wait for a product that is competitive. The goal isn’t to have something usable but to make money. If you lose money you’re not going to stay in business for very long. No one is going to use the WS-20 for commercial applications if it can’t match the reliability of a dedicated commercial design. The WS-20 isn’t even in the same class as the CJ-2000. The CJ-2000 has double its thrust. The CJ-1000 is the WS-20’s peer, not the CJ-2000.

sunnymaxi said:

LOL.

bro. how can you forget CJ-1000/CJ-2000 and AEF-1300

WS-20 will never convert into something like what you wish. this engine is strictly for military. for civilian purpose they design AEF-1300, civilian variant of WS-20. showcase in Zhuhai air show2022.

View attachment 109686

Yangtze Series engine program going with full pace.

View attachment 109687View attachment 109688View attachment 109690View attachment 109692

Click to expand...

AEF1300 is almost certainly going to be inferior to CJ-1000. If it can compete on cost it will mostly make sense for civilian transport rather than passenger airliners.

latenlazy said:

You can rely on inferior products for military uses but for commercial use it’s worse to sink resources into a product that’s not competitive than to wait for a product that is competitive. The goal isn’t to have something usable but to make money. If you lose money you’re not going to stay in business for very long. No one is going to use the WS-20 for commercial applications if it can’t match the reliability of a dedicated commercial design. The WS-20 isn’t even in the same class as the CJ-2000. The CJ-2000 has double its thrust. The CJ-1000 is the WS-20’s peer, not the CJ-2000.

AEF1300 is almost certainly going to be inferior to CJ-1000. If it can compete on cost it will mostly make sense for civilian transport rather than passenger airliners.

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yes. AEF-1300 is inferior to CJ-1000 engine. AVIC planning for Y-20 civil variant and maybe for some domestic programs in near future. who knows.

CJ series has nothing to do with military development/WS-20. they are on different path and under the strict guidance of COMAC.

sunnymaxi said:

yes. AEF-1300 is inferior to CJ-1000 engine. AVIC planning for Y-20 civil variant and maybe for some domestic programs in near future. who knows.

CJ series has nothing to do with military development/WS-20. they are on different path and under the strict guidance of COMAC.

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I can see AEF-1300 being used for a military use C919 design if the CJ-1000 isn't sanction proofed or if there's no desire to siphon some production capacity for non-commercial use.

That said, if there was any critical foreign component in the CJ-1000 before it's very unlikely there will be now.

EDIT: Another reason for using AEF-1300 for a military use C919 over CJ-1000 would be to simplify engine sustainment logistics.

ChongqingHotPot92 said:

Since the WS-20 is similar in size to the CFM56, the thrust should be around 31,000-35,000lbf. Four of them would be sufficient to power an A340 size aircraft. In other words, should China face additional sanctions, the C929 could be redesign along the lines of Il-96 and A340-300. Much less fuel efficiency compared to the current design, but still allow China to sustain its own commercial aircraft industry (plus Xi would no longer have to rely on Boeing for his own foreign travels).

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actually, quad -engine aircraft being less efficient is a myth. Leeham actually did a study on this a few years ago. The reason why quad engine aircraft have lower fuel efficiency is because the engine requirement for twin engine aircraft is a lot higher (since it needs to survive the situation where 1 engine loses power). As such, the 4-engine aircraft was always competing against 2-engine aircraft with newer engine. 777 v 380 is the typical comparison in this case.

So, C929 using 4 engine design is not necessarily a bad thing.

tphuang said:

actually, quad -engine aircraft being less efficient is a myth. Leeham actually did a study on this a few years ago. The reason why quad engine aircraft have lower fuel efficiency is because the engine requirement for twin engine aircraft is a lot higher (since it needs to survive the situation where 1 engine loses power). As such, the 4-engine aircraft was always competing against 2-engine aircraft with newer engine. 777 v 380 is the typical comparison in this case.

So, C929 using 4 engine design is not necessarily a bad thing.

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Industry went from 4 engine to 2 engine for maintenance optimization reasons though.