Chinese Engine Development

Pmichael

Junior Member
With it's modernized F-15 fleet, advanced ground radar network, AWACS and the fact that the USA could send well-tested F-22 aircraft to Japan there is nothing to fear.

J-20 with weaker Russian engines would just mean a sub-par aircraft and a logistical and economical nightmare whenever China introduces fighters with domestic engines.
 

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
If the PLA can get the J-20 operational early with Al-31Fs, that's a big plus. Simply having 5th generation capability in the air, no matter how underpowered, is a dramatic game changer that would radically shift the regional balance of power. While the aircraft may not be sufficiently maneuverable in the air or have strong supercruise in its initial incarnations, it would still give you a stealth air superiority capability that would allow you to gain a radical BVR advantage over the 4th generation opponents that are common in the area.

The best part with early J-20s operating Al-31Fs is the ambiguity. Say, when J-20s operating 117S (it's possible) or WS-15s come up, the opponent can't tell at a glance whether you're operating with high-thrust engines or low-thrust engines. Since they're now likely to mis-estimate your capabilities, they're now liable to make mistakes that you can exploit, either overestimating your Al-31F craft or underestimating your WS-15s, leading to higher casualties.

I would call it a success if the Japanese get forced to the negotiating table because J-20s with air superiority functions show up in 2016 and they won't receive delivery of F-35s until 2018.

Inst, I don't think we want to equate greater PLA capability to "forcing Japanese to negotiateion table". That's not the kind of board we want to have around here. Aside from the fact that we want to make everyone around the world comfortable to post on this forum, military is just one tool in political maneuvering between nations. So, it's best that we concentract just to technical stuff.
 

SinoSoldier

Colonel
With it's modernized F-15 fleet, advanced ground radar network, AWACS and the fact that the USA could send well-tested F-22 aircraft to Japan there is nothing to fear.

J-20 with weaker Russian engines would just mean a sub-par aircraft and a logistical and economical nightmare whenever China introduces fighters with domestic engines.

And with many new advanced ground and naval based AWACS or ground support and AESA equipped J-11B/J-15/J-16/J-10B as well as both the complementing Project 310 and air superiority J-20, there is considerable leverage on Beijing's side, not to mention that engines are only one variable in a host of various attributes that make up an aircraft such as the radar and electronics.
 

Pmichael

Junior Member
And with many new advanced ground and naval based AWACS or ground support and AESA equipped J-11B/J-15/J-16/J-10B as well as both the complementing Project 310 and air superiority J-20, there is considerable leverage on Beijing's side, not to mention that engines are only one variable in a host of various attributes that make up an aircraft such as the radar and electronics.

And there is no reason to believe that China will have the edge in radar and EW technolgies in the next decade but the lack of domestic designed and produced engines will stay the achilles' heel of the Chinese aviation industry.

It's nice and cool to circlejerk about a new aircraft but here is still a long way to go for China until the J-20 can become a game changer.
 

SinoSoldier

Colonel
And there is no reason to believe that China will have the edge in radar and EW technolgies in the next decade but the lack of domestic designed and produced engines will stay the achilles' heel of the Chinese aviation industry.

And what makes you so easily believe that the alleged lack of an engine will automatically nullify the advantages brought about by the attributes of their fighter, assuming that the engine suffers delays and problems? The Chinese have invested a lot of money into radar and EW technologies and have been developing advanced systems since the 1990s; what makes you think that their capabilities would be weighed down by the lack of an engine or that the Chinese would have trouble working their strategy and doctrine around the supposed delayed engine.

P.S. there is no evidence that the WS-15 has suffered delays.

It's nice and cool to circlejerk about a new aircraft but here is still a long way to go for China until the J-20 can become a game changer.

Same can be said regarding any prototype aircraft until they enter maturity; its current state is a very poor indicator of what it can potentially become once its configuration is decided and all pieces put in place.
 

latenlazy

Brigadier
And there is no reason to believe that China will have the edge in radar and EW technolgies in the next decade but the lack of domestic designed and produced engines will stay the achilles' heel of the Chinese aviation industry.

It's nice and cool to circlejerk about a new aircraft but here is still a long way to go for China until the J-20 can become a game changer.

There is SOME reason to believe that China will at least have parity on radar and EW technologies. Technologies don't progress in lockstep. They have differing difficulties of and requirements for mastery.
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
And what makes you so easily believe that the alleged lack of an engine will automatically nullify the advantages brought about by the attributes of their fighter, assuming that the engine suffers delays and problems? The Chinese have invested a lot of money into radar and EW technologies and have been developing advanced systems since the 1990s; what makes you think that their capabilities would be weighed down by the lack of an engine or that the Chinese would have trouble working their strategy and doctrine around the supposed delayed engine.

P.S. there is no evidence that the WS-15 has suffered delays.



Same can be said regarding any prototype aircraft until they enter maturity; its current state is a very poor indicator of what it can potentially become once its configuration is decided and all pieces put in place.

Fighter aircraft are primarily designed around their engines, and their tremendous performance is a combination of lots of thrust, and superior aerodynamic qualities, so the J-20 is very dependant on engine availability. There really is not a lot of information out on the WS-15 that one could qualify as "authoritative", and to my knowledge, installation of a WS-15 into a flying prototype of the J-20 is not eminent, so it is quite likely that the AL-31 variant of choice may be the LRIP aircrafts powerplant, not saying that China might not negotiate a deal for the F-117s if they felt there is an eminent need for the J-20, as that is the engine currently powering the T-50- prototypes. Not to provoke an argument, but the only indicator we have of the J-20s ultimate potential are the three flying prototypes, Dr. Songs paper, and the engineering prototypes and modeling. There seems to be a dearth of information regarding actual flying characteristics and specifications, so those things are primarily what actual performance predictions will be based on,,,,,, meanwhile I think one poster has led us to some significant thread drift??????

To suppose the J-20 will blow people away with the performance achievable on the AL-31s, is very unrealistic at this point....
 

Engineer

Major
And there is no reason to believe that China will have the edge in radar and EW technolgies in the next decade but the lack of domestic designed and produced engines will stay the achilles' heel of the Chinese aviation industry.

It's nice and cool to circlejerk about a new aircraft but here is still a long way to go for China until the J-20 can become a game changer.

Of course there is no reason to believe, since China will certainly going to have the edge in avionics. China has already achieved parities with Western fighters on many fronts in such area, and we can see evidences of them on China's High-New series aircraft.
 

BigWang

Banned Idiot
Why can't China license production jet engine from Rolls Royce instead of purchasing from Russia.
Right now, All the Navy ship engines are license produced from French or German, and China pretty good at that now.
 
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