Blackstone
Brigadier
If the WS10A engine is really in mass production, then there should be a few available to test one or two of the production-level J-15s. Unless the WS10A isn't ready for prime time?
Chinese Engine Development
- Thread starter jackbh
- Start date
If the WS10A engine is really in mass production, then there should be a few available to test one or two of the production-level J-15s. Unless the WS10A isn't ready for prime time?
Total avoidance of WS10A on J15 and J10B just smells too fishy.
thunderchief
Senior Member
No , I'm suggesting that J-15 as a sole dogfighter of PLAN needs responsive engine . That doesn't mean it would fulfill only that role (air superiority) .
Ok , I will assume I was wrong on J-11B & WS-10A , at least for now
SAC's attention is on the J-15 right now. It could be that the J-15 won't be equipped with the Taihang until they can get a version that is corrosion resistant. As for the J-10B, the single engine fighter reason comes to mind.
That said, it's standard practice to make spares to rotate engines out for maintenance, so that's where the potential supply of engines could be going to right now, or it could be that they're busy working on the corrosion resistant version (rumours of the H variant), while production capacity is being used for maintenance as opposed to production. All of these wouldn't be surprising assuming a small industrial base, as earlier posited.
They did test both the J-15s and J-10Bs with WS-10As earlier. The hearsay is that they decided not to go with the WS-10 for the J-15s for now because of corrosion issues.
It's unclear why the production of the J-10B won't be using WS-10s, but if SAC is expecting to equip later J-15s and then J-16s with WS-10s that might make future supply unreliable, which would preclude relying on another engine supplier. Another possibility is that more testing needs to be done with WS-10 equipped J-10Bs.
Again, 120 flankers flying around with the engine is no small number, and under any reasonable metric would easily qualify as "ready for prime time".
Fair.
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Not really.
J-10B has been rumoured to be using a newer Al-31 variant, which probably has more thrust than WS-10A because J-10B would have some weight increases over J-10A anyway. There is nothing wrong with that, because if chengdu has good relations with Salyut, and if shenyang liming can't produce either enough engines or powerful enough engines for J-10B.
For J-15, I have two suspicions why they aren't using WS-10A. One is a rumour that WS-10A wasn't as corrosion resistant as AL-31. Possible, but again, that was a passing rumour. Another belief I have is that PLAN are simply being cautious. If we look at how they've conducted their carrier program from getting the hulk of varyag to building their escort fleet to putting it into commission, they are taking things slowly and not inviting risk. Fact is, AL-31 is already a known quantity, it has operated and powered Su-33s for years. WS-10A could be as reliable, but remember this is the PLANs first airwing so they want to remove as many unknowns as possible.
Long story short, the fact that WS-10A isn't on J-10B or J-15 isn't particularly fishy — either that, or some people have higher expectations of the chinese aerospace industry than others.
Again,that relies on the faulty assumption that "dog fighters" require more "responsive" engines (whatever that means), and also the faulty assumption that WS-10A has "responsive" issues.
Using your assumption, then J-11B shouldn't be equipped with WS-10A because it is a pure air superiority platform.
Ok , I will assume I was wrong on J-11B & WS-10A , at least for now
Well, no, you are simply wrong, if I may be so fortright. I'm not sure when you started seriously following the PLA, but J-11B is simply not capable of strike and there are no indications that the PLAAF seek to refit their planes with that capability. Period.
Well, they've produced 5+ regiments of J-11B already, 4+ of which are using WS-10As
It appears SAC is more focused on J-15 — and probably J-16 at this point which will both supersede J-11B production.
Of course, the first batch of J-15 are using Al-31s but it appears that J-16 prototypes are all using WS-10A so when it enters production we should see WS-10A use.
Bottom line is that they've produced over a hundred planes that need two WS-10As each, not to mention spares as well. Which takes us quite easily over 200 turbofans. Probably even 300, if we include the various J-11BS and prototype planes that aren't part of the 4 regiments of J-11B and if we include spares (say one spare engine for ever 2.5 operational engines)
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thunderchief
Senior Member
Dogfighting aircraft need very responsive engines and strike aircraft could do without them - this is undisputed fact . My assumption - WS-10 is not responsive enough to be used on real air-superiority fighters like J-10 and J-15 - is wrong , I admit that .
I admit I'm no expert on Chinese aviation . However , if this what you said is true (J-11B cannot be employed for strike missions ) this is a great flaw of the aircraft , putting him way behind current multirole fighters .
Hence why the J-16 exists. The J-11s may eventually be outfitted with precision ground attack capabilities, but that's probably not a priority for the PLAAF right now.
And what's about these two links ???
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PS/EDIT:
Sorry... but I need to correct myself !
I made the mistake to misunderstand / mix "AL-31FN Series 3" with "AL-31F-M3" ... so it seems as if they are only improved in their serviceability but otherwise they share about the same standard - not even to M1 - like all previous delivered ones ! As such simply for the J-10 !
Sorry for that,
Deino
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PS/EDIT:
Sorry... but I need to correct myself !
I made the mistake to misunderstand / mix "AL-31FN Series 3" with "AL-31F-M3" ... so it seems as if they are only improved in their serviceability but otherwise they share about the same standard - not even to M1 - like all previous delivered ones ! As such simply for the J-10 !
Sorry for that,
Deino
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