Chinese Engine Development

Deino said:

Ohhh ..... how I hate these step-ba-step unveilings, it's just like aircraft-porn !

Even more since the one who made this image surely has a complete image ... so come on !!

Anyway it fits nicle to the so far only "said to be WS-20-image" we have.

Deino

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That's a old photograph of WS-20 on IL-76 testing picture from April.
Even chinese-military-aviation made a note of this. I would not expect a full unveilling until it is deploed on a Y-20, and probably Y-20 will be comissioned only after it gets the WS-20.

Current J15 and J10B production are in AL31F. WS10A runs into production number issue. well at least hasn't achieve AL31F production rate.

TyroneG said:

Current J15 and J10B production are in AL31F. WS10A runs into production number issue. well at least hasn't achieve AL31F production rate.

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The lack of video/pictures of J15 and J10B using WS-10A engines suggest it's more than just production ramp problems.

Blackstone said:

The lack of video/pictures of J15 and J10B using WS-10A engines suggest it's more than just production ramp problems.

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Could be true. But I have seen a few pics of them fitting with WS10A but later on they all switched back to AL31F. I suspect they didn't like WS10A due to some issues.

A common issue with the Chinese; One step forward and then followed by one step backward and ends up going nowhere.

If the ws-10a is as.deficient as either of you are suggesting they wouldn't be mass adopted on J-11Bs. If it's not good enough for one air frame but good enough for another you'd have to point out a more specific reason than "it must be having problems", or else explain why those "problems" affect one air frame but not another.

TyroneG said:

Current J15 and J10B production are in AL31F. WS10A runs into production number issue. well at least hasn't achieve AL31F production rate.

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That simply means they can't build as many engines for their new airframes, meaning they should expand capacity. But that isn't a bottleneck in itself because shenyang liming has demonstrated they can mass produce them, now they just need to build more

Bltizo said:

That simply means they can't build as many engines for their new airframes, meaning they should expand capacity. But that isn't a bottleneck in itself because shenyang liming has demonstrated they can mass produce them, now they just need to build more

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Well , they are start to build them since 2009, 4 yrs and about 45 J-11B built that's 90 WS10A. I would say that's pretty low production rate.

You call that mass production for a country of that size?

latenlazy said:

If the ws-10a is as.deficient as either of you are suggesting they wouldn't be mass adopted on J-11Bs. If it's not good enough for one air frame but good enough for another you'd have to point out a more specific reason than "it must be having problems", or else explain why those "problems" affect one air frame but not another.

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For starter, I am not sure if they are completely satisfied with WS10A J11Bs. They probably build a bunch of J11Bs to try it out in larger sample sizes.

TyroneG said:

For starter, I am not sure if they are completely satisfied with WS10A J11Bs. They probably build a bunch of J11Bs to try it out in larger sample sizes.

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A regiment would have been a adequate sample size. They built five. In fact, beyond the first regiment of the J-11Bs every regiment has used the WS-10A.

TyroneG said:

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Well , they are start to build them since 2009, 4 yrs and about 45 J-11B built that's 90 WS10A. I would say that's pretty low production rate.

You call that mass production for a country of that size?

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You don't judge production capacity based on the size of a country. You base it on the size of their industrial base and skilled labour force. In this case, I imagine the skilled labour for turbofan manufacturing is very small, because it is not an area where China's development strategy to accumulate human capital has worked due to weapons embargoes. It takes time to train enough people to ramp up production, especially if you have to learn the skills yourself and then teach it yourself, as opposed to having the benefit of someone from a more developed country teach it to you.

Also, you're under counting the number of J-11Bs. About 120 make 240 WS-10As.

TyroneG said:

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Well , they are start to build them since 2009, 4 yrs and about 45 J-11B built that's 90 WS10A. I would say that's pretty low production rate.

You call that mass production for a country of that size?

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The most recent estimates easily suggest over 100 and if anything our latest estimates are probably an underestimate given the scarcity of photos from SAC recently. (Btw huitong's orbat listing is only for various identified aircraft, not the total number... Obviously)
Mister Tyrone,we've been over this numbers game before.