airsuperiority
Captain
LOL!!!! We need memes for this forum
Chinese Engine Development
- Thread starter jackbh
- Start date
LOL!!!! We need memes for this forum
Not sure exactly where to put this. I wanted to put my theory out here in the forum regarding this story. Could it have anything to do with the Pentagon not wanting any Chinooks to fall into Chinese hands for reverse engineering?
I don't see it being a big concern with hostile Afghans, Iranians, or Russians getting their hands on one, the former two because they won't be able to do much with it, the latter because they probably already know as much about it as they want.
The chinook, although effective is really not that futuristic or state of the art. I am sure that if the Chinese wanted something like that, they could build one with or without the physical US Chinook as a reference.
The reason for the deal might be as simple as what was already being suggested in the article... the Afghans had been operating the Mi-17 and the Mi-17 are durable and suitable for the terrain, so it is a good and cheap platforms to go to. I would understand if the US hesitate to sell F-35 and F-22 to the Afghans for fear that their best fighters might fall into the hands of the Chinese and Russians. But Chinook? I doubt it...
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
The Worry is not about Chinook falling into Chinese Or Iranian ( They ALREADY HAVE THEM!)
or Russian ( why bother?) its the Money honey! The Main Choppers offered are the MI17 its Ironic but the US tends to gift Russian gear more then American. these Choppers are decedents of Mi 8 Hip. The Builder is part of the Russian OPK Oboronprom they were contracted to because the Chopper is Cheaper then Boeing can go places a Chinook has difficulty and is easier to maintain.
the problem?
OPK Oboronprom is a Russian firm they sell to a lot of nations including some the US does not like. The US Congress Does not want USA written next to Iran on a Costumer list.
or Russian ( why bother?) its the Money honey! The Main Choppers offered are the MI17 its Ironic but the US tends to gift Russian gear more then American. these Choppers are decedents of Mi 8 Hip. The Builder is part of the Russian OPK Oboronprom they were contracted to because the Chopper is Cheaper then Boeing can go places a Chinook has difficulty and is easier to maintain.
the problem?
OPK Oboronprom is a Russian firm they sell to a lot of nations including some the US does not like. The US Congress Does not want USA written next to Iran on a Costumer list.
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according to experts, the design of engine is not too difficult, the hardest part is the material in the blades and also the metallurgy of "hot section" combustion chamber. If China truly solved the issue with its WS10A in terms of materials, then WS13, WS15, WS18 should be rolling out like hot cakes. There shouldn't obstacles once material issues have been solved like they claimed.
The biggest challenge with WS-10A was mass producing them reliably. They've already mastered that. Now it's a question of slowly increasing capacity, and improving performance for future variants.
By the way, simply "solving" issues with one engine doesn't mean all the others are immediately walks in the park. They are different institutes with different individuals working on different projects aiming for different parameters.
It's like saying being able to build a Y-20 means China should easily be able to build a wide aisle commercial airliner.
Nice try with the strawman too.
If only this played out like a strategy RPG no? China's biggest weakness right now is in scaling its skills, knowledge, and industrial practices. Those things don't happen over night. You can master a technology and still lack the capability to iterate and mass produce it.
For starter we like to see some initial sample of WS13, WS15, and WS18. Mass production can wait.
WS-20
View attachment 8814
Not entirely sure what's going on with the WS-13 but according to this article it's flying.
As has been said multiple times already, the WS-15 isn't expected until maybe 2015.
Anyways your metric is pretty illogical. Whether China has mastered the materials and technologies necessary for indigenous production of modern turbofans speaks for itself with the Taihang. Whether China can turn out variations and iterations is dependent on how distributed the knowledge and skills to design and produce those engines are, not whether China has the know how or not. You only need one case example to demonstrate capability. A lack of multiple cases demonstrates a lack of industrial capacity and/or a weak industrial base, not the lack of technological ability.
EDIT: Apparently the WS-13 article link doesn't work.
This one makes a similar claim.
Also forgot to mention that all these engines are being handled by different firms, so skills and personnel available to one firm may not be readily transferable to another.
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thunderchief
Senior Member
Well , is not that simple
Regarding engine blades , you have three types and single crystal blade is best .It is rumored that older AL-31 engines used directionally solidified blades , and to achieve required temperature (and engine thrust) engine life was shortened and AL-31 had to be redesigned for better cooling . Using same technology , you may not be able to achieve same maximum temperature in other , more compact engine (like WS-13) .I advise reading this discussion on another forum for better understanding :