Chinese Engine Development

MiG-29

Banned Idiot
The official report by Salyut did not mention ANY engines. It just mentioned a visit to the production facilities.

As for the HK source...Want China Times is not a very reputable source. I think I would be less skeptical if it were the SCMP or even one of the four main Taiwan outlets, but on the tier of reliability Want China Times is about as good as a gossip mag.
I will just put it simple, no military visit is without interest by the visitor, first China has signed with Russia agreements to cooperate in the realm of the military area.

I terms of diplomacy both sides communicate a schedule to follow, specially for a high military ranking official visiting a highly out of access facility for foreigners.

What you doing is simply in denial of the political realities of both nations, since cooperation in the realm of aero-engines is mutually beneficial for China and Russia.

Also the Chinese official goes with his entourage of technicians and he is in charge of the delegation and Xu Qiliang, is the vice chairman of the Central Military Commission of the Communist Party of China and he was was accompanied by Sergey Shoigu, Russia’s defense minister


see what the Salut page says
During the red carpet reception, Vladislav Masalov, Director General of Salut, emphasized in his speech the importance of cooperation with the PRC in aeroengine-building projects.

Colonel-General Xu Qiliang in his turn expressed the willingness to use best efforts toward ensuring that this cooperation be continued on a long-term and mutually beneficial basis.






So basicly the visit has a purpose is not a tourist destination.
 

latenlazy

Brigadier
I will just put it simple, no military visit is without interest by the visitor, first China has signed with Russia agreements to cooperate in the realm of the military area.

I terms of diplomacy both sides communicate a schedule to follow, specially for a high military ranking official visiting a highly out of access facility for foreigners.

What you doing is simply in denial of the political realities of both nations, since cooperation in the realm of aero-engines is mutually beneficial for China and Russia.

Also the Chinese official goes with his entourage of technicians and he is in charge of the delegation and Xu Qiliang, is the vice chairman of the Central Military Commission of the Communist Party of China and he was was accompanied by Sergey Shoigu, Russia’s defense minister


see what the Salut page says
During the red carpet reception, Vladislav Masalov, Director General of Salut, emphasized in his speech the importance of cooperation with the PRC in aeroengine-building projects.

Colonel-General Xu Qiliang in his turn expressed the willingness to use best efforts toward ensuring that this cooperation be continued on a long-term and mutually beneficial basis.






So basicly the visit has a purpose is not a tourist destination.

Right, but the press release only establishes an interest. It doesn't define what that interest is. Without the reporting, everything outside of the fact that there was a visit is speculation. Furthermore, even if we attempt to deduce what the visit was about, there are several plausible scenarios, so it's impossible to assert that it must be a single one of those without evidence.
 

MiG-29

Banned Idiot
Right, but the press release only establishes an interest. It doesn't define what that interest is. Without the reporting, everything outside of the fact that there was a visit is speculation. Furthermore, even if we attempt to deduce what the visit was about, there are several plausible scenarios, so it's impossible to assert that it must be a single one of those without evidence.

Colonel-General Xu Qiliang in his turn expressed the willingness to use best efforts toward ensuring that this cooperation be continued on a long-term and mutually beneficial basis.

see he is replying to this

During the red carpet reception, Vladislav Masalov, Director General of Salut, emphasized in his speech the importance of cooperation with the PRC in aeroengine-building projects.



This can mean sales or research, the Chinese website only claims they went shopping for the engine, but either the Chinese are interested in buying more engines or designing engines.

The Chinese did not send Colonel-General Xu Qiliang just to say we will cooperate as an empty phrase, they send him to deal something, to talk, to try to sign an agreement the most likely engine they Chinese went to buy was Al-31M1 or perhaps the 117S equivalent Al-31M2.

For these engines to be sold they need approve by highly ranking officials since the United Engine Coorporation needs approval to sale its engines by the Russian Government
 

latenlazy

Brigadier
Colonel-General Xu Qiliang in his turn expressed the willingness to use best efforts toward ensuring that this cooperation be continued on a long-term and mutually beneficial basis.

see he is replying to this

During the red carpet reception, Vladislav Masalov, Director General of Salut, emphasized in his speech the importance of cooperation with the PRC in aeroengine-building projects.



This can mean sales or research, the Chinese website only claims they went shopping for the engine, but either the Chinese are interested in buying more engines or designing engines.

The Chinese did not send Colonel-General Xu Qiliang just to say we will cooperate as an empty phrase, they send him to deal something, to talk, to try to sign an agreement the most likely engine they Chinese went to buy was Al-31M1 or perhaps the 117S equivalent Al-31M2.

For these engines to be sold they need approve by highly ranking officials since the United Engine Coorporation needs approval to sale its engines by the Russian Government
Not all forms of cooperation with an engine manufacturer necessarily revolves around the purchase of engines.
 

MiG-29

Banned Idiot
Not all forms of cooperation with an engine manufacturer necessarily revolves around the purchase of engines.

Cooperation means in this case either buy engines or design them togather since Masalov was talking about the importance of cooperation with the PRC in aeroengine-building projects; and China has either bought Al-31s or China and Russia will design new engines or Russia will get involved in the current Chinese engine programs.

The rest is up to you, there is no need to discuss this further since your position has been established and we won`t agree regards, i just mentioned the Chinese website was the one that claim they went Shopping and no russian sources, since you do not like that you will only claim it is unreliable, but it was the Chinese website who Claimed they went to buy engines
 

Engineer

Major
I will just put it simple, no military visit is without interest by the visitor, first China has signed with Russia agreements to cooperate in the realm of the military area.

I terms of diplomacy both sides communicate a schedule to follow, specially for a high military ranking official visiting a highly out of access facility for foreigners.
Nope. It has already been shown that a visit does not necessitate an interest. In one example,
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. In another example,
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.

Both examples fulfill your criteria, in that the visit was done by high ranking military officials and that the locations of the visit are strictly restricted to outsiders. Yet, the Russians were not at the plant to buy JF-17. The Americans were not in China to buy Chinese built naval combatants. Your association of a visit with an interest in purchasing is just the result of you running wild on imagination.

What you doing is simply in denial of the political realities of both nations, since cooperation in the realm of aero-engines is mutually beneficial for China and Russia.

Also the Chinese official goes with his entourage of technicians and he is in charge of the delegation and Xu Qiliang, is the vice chairman of the Central Military Commission of the Communist Party of China and he was was accompanied by Sergey Shoigu, Russia’s defense minister


see what the Salut page says
During the red carpet reception, Vladislav Masalov, Director General of Salut, emphasized in his speech the importance of cooperation with the PRC in aeroengine-building projects.

Colonel-General Xu Qiliang in his turn expressed the willingness to use best efforts toward ensuring that this cooperation be continued on a long-term and mutually beneficial basis.
Ironically, it is you who are in denial of the realities here.

There are reasons why Russia export of military equipments to China dwindle in recent years. On one hand, the Russians do not want to sell anything advance to China. On the other hand, China wishes cannot be fulfilled by Russia anymore even if Russia is willing to sell. As an example, China works on the J-20 rather than cooperating with Russia on PAKFA. In another example, China works on the Y-20 rather than cooperating with Russia on IL-476.

China also has strong resolve in going domestic. Take a look at the WZ-10 helicopter as an example. The intended engine for this aircraft is to be made by Pratt & Whitney. However, the cooperation got exposed, forcing China to choose another engine. China could have gone to Russia, but what did China do? China used the WZ-9 engine instead, irrespective of whether Russian engines are more powerful.

In the area of jet engines, there isn't going to be additional cooperation beyond what is already in place -- namely the AL-31 series. Russian manufacturers will continue supply engine parts, while China will continue to pay the manufacturers money. That's it. It is no different from you buying oranges from a store. Frankly, it shouldn't even be called a cooperation just as buying oranges is not a form of cooperation with the store owner.

So basicly the visit has a purpose is not a tourist destination.
So basically, any purpose is merely your imagination at this point. Military officials naturally like to see military stuffs, so the plant is to Chinese delegates like Statue of Liberty is to civilian tourists.
 
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latenlazy

Brigadier
Cooperation means in this case either buy engines or design them togather since Masalov was talking about the importance of cooperation with the PRC in aeroengine-building projects; and China has either bought Al-31s or China and Russia will design new engines or Russia will get involved in the current Chinese engine programs.

The rest is up to you, there is no need to discuss this further since your position has been established and we won`t agree regards, i just mentioned the Chinese website was the one that claim they went Shopping and no russian sources, since you do not like that you will only claim it is unreliable, but it was the Chinese website who Claimed they went to buy engines

Cooperation can also mean learning manufacturing techniques, looking at management and organizational culture, looking at/buying equipment, or setting up parts deals. IF it involves purchases, it may not even have anything to do with production. It could be getting engines for testing purposes. There's just wayyy too much ambiguity to say for sure what the visit is actually about.
 

Engineer

Major
Cooperation means in this case either buy engines or design them togather since Masalov was talking about the importance of cooperation with the PRC in aeroengine-building projects; and China has either bought Al-31s or China and Russia will design new engines or Russia will get involved in the current Chinese engine programs.
Cooperation in this case actually has little meanings outside of polite lip services. Anything beyond that is imaginary without concrete evidence.

The rest is up to you, there is no need to discuss this further since your position has been established and we won`t agree regards, i just mentioned the Chinese website was the one that claim they went Shopping and no russian sources, since you do not like that you will only claim it is unreliable, but it was the Chinese website who Claimed they went to buy engines
You have ignored far more credible sources at a whim before, such as sources written by the most reputable aerodynamicists. Why the insistence on a nameless Hong Kong website that merely reported a second hand rumor? You are just grasping at straws, that's why.

There is no concrete evidence that Chinese are buying a new type of engine from Russia, or collaborating with Russians on building a new type of jet engine. If such evidences were to exist, like a contract being signed or an official announcement, you would have flaunt them on every single thread as evidence of your triumph. You would not be here playing word games, claiming so-and-so articles share your thought when they reported something completely different.
 
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MiG-29

Banned Idiot
Cooperation can also mean learning manufacturing techniques, looking at management and organizational culture, looking at/buying equipment, or setting up parts deals. IF it involves purchases, it may not even have anything to do with production. It could be getting engines for testing purposes. There's just wayyy too much ambiguity to say for sure what the visit is actually about.

You can say whatever it makes you feel secure about the cooperation, but i am confident you do not go to your provider of Al-31s just to learn management of of programs, if your Provider of Al-31s is saying cooperation in aeroengine-building projects and you are buying their engines and recieved their maintainance manuals for Al-31 and the engines for L-15 you buy them from Ukraine and Salut is a provider via Motorsich is hardly a chance you are looking for the AI-222-25 and AI-222-28 engines.

Since the Current Russian engine for Il-76s is PS-90A2 of much higher yield thrust than the D-436T1/TP/148 engine that is intended for short and medium-haul airliners such as Tu-334, Be-200, An-148 and other but not for Il-76

It is unlikely the Chinese went Shopping for these engines.

The Chinese website is more logical than you since the main product sold is Al-31M1 and you already have the manuals for Al-31F and Al-31FN.

Why you will send so many people and bother to bring the Russian minister of defense?
 

latenlazy

Brigadier
You can say whatever it makes you feel secure about the cooperation, but i am confident you do not go to your provider of Al-31s just to learn management of of programs, if your Provider of Al-31s is saying cooperation in aeroengine-building projects and you are buying their engines and recieved their maintainance manuals for Al-31 and the engines for L-15 you buy them from Ukraine and Salut is a provider via Motorsich is hardly a chance you are looking for he AI-222-25 and AI-222-28 engines.

Since the Current Russian engine for Il-76s is PS-90A2 of much higher yield thrust than the D-436T1/TP/148 engine that is intended for short and medium-haul airliners such as Tu-334, Be-200, An-148 and other but not for Il-76

It is unlikely the Chinese went Shopping for these engines.

The Chinese website is more logical than you
...Except China has been going to their product providers to learn manufacturing processes for the last 40 years now *facepalm*.
 
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