Chinese Engine Development

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kroko

Senior Member
TyroneG said:
I don't have any source, and it's my hunch and would put my money into that when it's all said and done, J20 will be operational with some sort of AL31 Family engines, underpowered or not really unfitting as it may seem.

This is based on Chinese track record, characteristic tendency(finding the simplest way out, path of least resistance)..etc.
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Without any sources, all you have is your opinion which is worth as anyone´s opinion.
 
Engineer

Engineer

Major
thunderchief said:
Russians are not buying JF-17 , but you keep forgetting they are still selling engines for that aircraft ;) If Pakistan wants to make more JF-17s , they have to strike a deal with them .
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The Russian delegation was not in JF-17 plant to look at Russian engines. The delegation was there to look at the JF-17. Here we see Lieutenant General Viktor Nikolayevich Bondarev Commander-in-Chief sitting in JF-17's cockpit. Guess where the Russian engine is installed? The engine is not inside the cockpit, that's for sure.
zwdrg6.jpg


As shown by my example, military delegation visiting a manufacturing plant has no correlation with future military sales.
 
Engineer

Engineer

Major
TyroneG said:
I don't have any source, and it's my hunch and would put my money into that when it's all said and done, J20 will be operational with some sort of AL31 Family engines, underpowered or not really unfitting as it may seem.
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That sounds more like a fantasy to me. If China really expects an engine in the class of AL-31 to power operational J-20s, China could have chosen the WS-10 right from the beginning.

TyroneG said:
This is based on Chinese track record, characteristic tendency(finding the simplest way out, path of least resistance)..etc.
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What track record? There isn't one.
 
MiG-29

MiG-29

Banned Idiot
Engineer said:
. Guess where the Russian engine is installed? The engine is not inside the cockpit, that's for sure.
.
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The engine controls are at the cockpit, yes at the cockpit :) a small detail you forgot or how do you think the aircraft will start flying by telepathy? obviously the engine controls of a RD93 are in the cockpit all the data is presented there and the pilot operates the engine from the cockpit.
 
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MiG-29

MiG-29

Banned Idiot
latenlazy said:
I think what's so unusual about your points is that the projected completion of the ws-15 was always set much later, past 2015. There were never any real expectations that it would be earlier than this, even after the J-20 surprised us with an earlier than anticipated reveal. To suggest that because the ws-15 isn't ready yet it must be behind schedule, when the engine was always anticipated to be ready much later, seems to many people a distorted interpretation of the facts*.
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The official report by Salut does not mention what engines, it only claims they talked about collaboration in aeroengines, this can include 3 engines by the part of the Saturn or a new engine by joint venture.
China could be interested in any engine where Salut`s experience might help or a new engine as joint venture, candidate engines are WS-10s or WS-15 or engines for light aircraft like the Mishan or airliners perhaps cargo planes too.


It is the Hong Kong based report that claims they went shopping for J-20`s engine, that is not a russian source but Chinese it self
 
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L

latenlazy

Brigadier
MiG-29 said:
The official report by Salut does not mention what engines, it only claims they talked about collaboration in aeroengines, this can include 3 engines by the part of the Saturn or a new engine by joint venture.
China could be interested in any engine where Salut`s experience might help or a new engine as joint venture, candidate engines are WS-10s or WS-15 or engines for light aircraft like the Mishan or airliners perhaps cargo planes too.


It is the Hong Kong based report that claims they went shopping for J-20`s engine, that is not a russian source but Chinese it self
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The official report by Salyut did not mention ANY engines. It just mentioned a visit to the production facilities.

As for the HK source...Want China Times is not a very reputable source. I think I would be less skeptical if it were the SCMP or even one of the four main Taiwan outlets, but on the tier of reliability Want China Times is about as good as a gossip mag.
 
Engineer

Engineer

Major
MiG-29 said:
The engine controls are at the cockpit, yes at the cockpit :) a small detail you forgot or how do you think the aircraft will start flying by telepathy? obviously the engine controls of a RD93 are in the cockpit all the data is presented there and the pilot operates the engine from the cockpit.
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Engine controls are not the same as the engine. So being inside the cockpit, the lieutenant general was obvious not there to admire Russia engines.
 
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Engineer

Engineer

Major
MiG-29 said:
The official report by Salut does not mention what engines, it only claims they talked about collaboration in aeroengines, this can include 3 engines by the part of the Saturn or a new engine by joint venture.
China could be interested in any engine where Salut`s experience might help or a new engine as joint venture, candidate engines are WS-10s or WS-15 or engines for light aircraft like the Mishan or airliners perhaps cargo planes too.
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Actually, the report did not outline any collaboration at all. Rather, both sides made some vague statements claiming cooperation is important, which is no different than not saying anything at all. Unless there are contracts signed for engines and technologies other than those that China already has, any form of Chinese interest that you are seeing is pure imagination.

MiG-29 said:
It is the Hong Kong based report that claims they went shopping for J-20`s engine, that is not a russian source but Chinese it self
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Let's just put it this way: an elementry school kid following Chinese military development would be more knowledgable on the matter than anyone within Hong Kong media.
 
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A

AeroEngineer

Junior Member
Guys, lets knock this off. Everyone knows that the J-20 prototypes are currently powered by AL-31.

Will the J-20A use Russian engines? Maybe, Maybe not. It depends on the WS-10B, it WS-10B can match AL-31FM1 in 2-3 years then there is no need.

117S is now unlikely to power the J-20. WS-15 is at least 6 years away.

So lets be patient.

BTW, according to the official Russian news, it says that China was invited by Russia to check out the Salut engine facility, it did not even mention the J-20.
 
L

latenlazy

Brigadier
AeroEngineer said:
Guys, lets knock this off. Everyone knows that the J-20 prototypes are currently powered by AL-31.

Will the J-20A use Russian engines? Maybe, Maybe not. It depends on the WS-10B, it WS-10B can match AL-31FM1 in 2-3 years then there is no need.

117S is now unlikely to power the J-20. WS-15 is at least 6 years away.

So lets be patient.

BTW, according to the official Russian news, it says that China was invited by Russia to check out the Salut engine facility, it did not even mention the J-20.
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Wasn't really concerned about whether the J-20 will or won't use Russian engines. If it does it does. My gripe was with how the source was handled.
 
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