Chinese Engine Development

paintgun

Senior Member
MTBO of WS-10A = 300 hours, it's quite acceptable for mass production planes with this engines. For example, the first series of AL-31F engines in mid 80s has service life limit is only 100 hours. AL-31F, which were installed on the Su-27SK\Su-27UBK\Su-33 have a MTBO = 300 hours and service life is 900 hours.

that somehow crossed my mind too

perhaps the SARI personnel/spokesperson was talking about how things were in the past, perhaps he/she was just a bit out of loop with current happenings in AVIC engine departments

like flateric said, perhaps they had this talk while having a few sips
300 hours MBTO sounds right for post 2009 WS-10, and it should be improved at least by a margin now

If you are an aviation watcher.

No he is certainly not ;)
 

jackliu

Banned Idiot
You are treating all the Russian sources all alike? Very funny.
And do you have reliable proof that there were no any negotiations on Su-33 and Su-35S purchase?

BTW, news from Zhuhai
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/air-force/chinese-purchase-su-35-a-9-5915.html#post213487

Post whatever you want to post there, and before you do, makes sure you get up to date on what people are posting. Everyone of your concern has been addressed with, so if you do post, please offer some new insights instead of the old argument that people have repeated over and over again and responded with over and over again.

Also can anyone provide some estimate just how many WS-10A is in service? That is how many J-11B are flying with WS-10A right now? And what is the production rate for J-11B?
 

flateric

Junior Member
If you are an aviation watcher. This is the third time Russian mention about China interested buying Su-35 but the first 2 are prove to be fake.
Proven to be fake? Show me the proof, please.
If you think that man in position of UAC President can allow himself such blah-blah, you should make a reality check.
What do you think Russian-Chinese Joint Commission on Military-Technical Cooperation members do at sessions in Moscow and Beijing? Discussing Prêt-à-Porter trends?
 

Lion

Senior Member
Proven to be fake? Show me the proof, please.
If you think that man in position of UAC President can allow himself such blah-blah, you should make a reality check.
What do you think Russian-Chinese Joint Commission on Military-Technical Cooperation members do at sessions in Moscow and Beijing? Discussing Prêt-à-Porter trends?


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RusNEWS.CN reports (3-09-12 Beijing time): Reporter Alexi Yafmov reports: The Chinese Department of defence revealed to RusNews that reports by the Russian media regarding the signing of a 48 Su-35 fighter contract between China and Russia are inaccurate.

The Chinese Department of Defense clarified that : "In recent years, China maintained close strategic partnership with Russia and successfully cooperated in numerous domains. Sino-Russian military cooperation is an important part of Sino-Russian strategic partnership that is being carried out smoothly and has continuously yielded results. Reports that "China and Russia agreed on the purchase on 48 Su-35 fighters, however, have no factual basis.

On March 6th, Russian newspaper Kommersant quoted a Russian military insider when supposedly said that China and Russia agreed to sign a contract which will supply the Chinese military with 48 Su-35 fighters. The contract would have a net worth of 4 billion dollars.

They can be just discussing defence cooperation. This news is posted on March which is to rebuke Russian second time for posting fake news of China buying 48 Su-35.
 

flateric

Junior Member
do you see difference between 'agreed on purchase' and 'discussing the purchase'? I'm not waving with flag 'China agreed to buy Su-35S' if you have noticed. Or you think that Pogosyan waked up on another morning at Zhuhai and thought 'what should I invent today to tell reporters. well, let's troll them another time with Chinese Su-35 purchase, that would be funny and make our partners more friendly'

Kommersant is very reputable edition, with credible sources - which already caused several FSB investigations on SECOP after their publications.
Do you think that Global Times and china.org.cn would put this news in headlines without permission back then?
 
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Lion

Senior Member
do you see difference between 'agreed on purchase' and 'discussing the purchase'? I'm not waving with flag 'China agreed to buy Su-35S' if you have noticed. Or you think that Pogosyan waked up on another morning at Zhuhai and thought 'what should I invent today to tell reporters. well, let's troll them another time with Chinese Su-35 purchase, that would be funny and make our partners more friendly'

Discussing the purchase , so? You make yourr point.. Happy?

Russian like to tell the world Chinese interested in Su-35 but not a single Su-35 deal completed? Does this kind of act gives Russian a thrill? What the purpose of convincing all of us indeed a discussion take place? End of the day, not a single deal or plane sold. What purpose does it serves? Tell me??
 
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jackliu

Banned Idiot
do you see difference between 'agreed on purchase' and 'discussing the purchase'? I'm not waving with flag 'China agreed to buy Su-35S' if you have noticed. Or you think that Pogosyan waked up on another morning at Zhuhai and thought 'what should I invent today to tell reporters. well, let's troll them another time with Chinese Su-35 purchase, that would be funny and make our partners more friendly'

Kommersant is very reputable edition, with credible sources - which already caused several FSB investigations on SECOP after their publications.
Do you think that Global Times and china.org.cn would put this news in headlines without permission back then?

http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/air-force/chinese-purchase-su-35-a-9-5915.html#post213496
http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/air-force/chinese-purchase-su-35-a-9-5915.html#post213496
http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/air-force/chinese-purchase-su-35-a-9-5915.html#post213496
http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/air-force/chinese-purchase-su-35-a-9-5915.html#post213496
http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/air-force/chinese-purchase-su-35-a-9-5915.html#post213496
http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/air-force/chinese-purchase-su-35-a-9-5915.html#post213496
http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/air-force/chinese-purchase-su-35-a-9-5915.html#post213496


CLICK IT
 

flateric

Junior Member
Discussing the purchase , so? You make yourr point.. Happy?

Russian like to tell the world Chinese interested in Su-35 but not a single Su-35 deal completed? Does this kind of act gives Russian a thrill? What the purpose of convincing all of us indeed a discussion take place? End of the day, not a single deal or plane sold. What purpose does it serves? Tell me??

for the God's sake, it wasn't me or even you who brought Su-35 here. someone just insists that all that Russian media writes on Sino-Russian military cooperation are plain lies. have you ever asked yourself a question where these rumors on Su-35 came from and why?

Theory that China wants Su-35S to borrow 117S is idiotic per se as 117S already had export passport back in 2006, even before 901 flew the first time, and can be sold separately
 
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MiG-29

Banned Idiot

okay let me see, China buys 410 Al-31 to replace old ones because obviously those jets can not get WS-10s, according to theories here, those jets need Al-31s because the chinese engineers forgot to design a Al-31 replacement that could be fitted to jets that already use Al-31s

Then China will replace 290 Al-31s on Su-27s and 120 Al-31s on J-10s.

So half of China`s Su-27 fleet gets brand new Al-31s and almost half of China`s J-10 fleet get brand new Al-31s because obviously they can not get WS-10, So Saturn is the only benefiting here since probably 99% of J-10s use Al-31s and 95% of Su-27s use Al-31, then as Saturn says since WS-10 can not replace Al-31s on "old jets" so still China very likely will continue buying new A-31s.

Now let us see China buys more than 1000 Al-31s, according to Satunr China has bought more than 1000 Al-31s, which means China has around 350 Su-27 plus 300 J-10s, that use Al-31 and China has bought a at least 700 Al-31s for 350 Su-27s and 300 J-10s then we can calculate that Saturn will have job for a long time obviously WS-10 will not be able to replace engines on old Su-27s and J-10s that use AL-31s as it is now.


Now from the point of view of Logistic WS-10 still can not be used to get rid of AL-31s because only in 2011 and 2012 410 Al-31 were bought directly from Russia because to the theories here WS-10 already can replace Al-31 in new jets like J-10B and J-11B but not in old jets, so as i see China has not rid of Saturn for Al-31s and 410 jet engines are bought in less than a year just to replace Al-31s on half of China`s fleet of Su-27s and 120 J-10s obviously the Chinese engineers forgot to make WS-10 an engine that can replace Al-31 in old jets obviously yes obviously.

Yeah

According to theory
 
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tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
okay let me see, China buys 410 Al-31 to replace old ones because obviously those jets can not get WS-10s, according to theories here, those jets need Al-31s because the chinese engineers forgot to design a Al-31 replacement that could be fitted to jets that already use Al-31s

Then China will replace 290 Al-31s on Su-27s and 120 Al-31s on J-10s.

So half of China`s Su-27 fleet gets brand new Al-31s and almost half of China`s J-10 fleet get brand new Al-31s because obviously they can not get WS-10, So Saturn is the only benefiting here since probably 99% of J-10s use Al-31s and 95% of Su-27s use Al-31, then as Saturn says since WS-10 can not replace Al-31s on "old jets" so still China very likely will continue buying new A-31s.

Now let us see China buys more than 1000 Al-31s which means China has around 350 Su-27 plus 300 J-10s means that use Al-31 and China has bought a at least 700 Al-31s for 350 Su-27s and 300 J-10s then we can calculate that Saturn will have job for a long time obviously WS-10 will not be able to replace engines on old Su-27s and J-10s that use AL-31s as it is now.


Now from the point of view of Logistic WS-10 still can not be used to get rid of AL-31s because only in 2011 and 2012 410 Al-31 were bought directly from Russia because to the theories here WS-10 already can replace Al-31 in new jets like J-10B and J-11B but not in old jets, so as i see China has not rid of Saturn for Al-31s and 410 jets are bought in less than a year just to replace Al-31s on half of China`s fleet of Su-27s and 120 J-10s obviously the Chinese engineers forgot to make WS-10 an engine that can replace Al-31 in old jets obviously yes obviously.

Yeah

According to theory

There is no reason why China should try to do anything other than buying AL-31 to replace the ones in jets that already use them. AL-31 and WS-10A are clearly not the same engine, even if they are similar. I don't even know the cost attached to changing engines on these platforms to WS-10. It really doesn't make sense to do that. It's an indictment on Russian engines that China have to continue to buy them due to their short service life.
 
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