Regardless of the MBTO, it's very clear the WS-10A is being adopted. It's entirely plausible that they've simply decided to push adoption along as a way to work out the kinks rather than figure out the kinks first before mass adoption.
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Chinese Engine Development
- Thread starter jackbh
- Start date
Regardless of the MBTO, it's very clear the WS-10A is being adopted. It's entirely plausible that they've simply decided to push adoption along as a way to work out the kinks rather than figure out the kinks first before mass adoption.
Regardless of the MBTO, it's very clear the WS-10A is being adopted. It's entirely plausible that they've simply decided to push adoption along as a way to work out the kinks rather than figure out the kinks first before mass adoption.
PLAAF has very strict criteria for their operation fleet. They will not simply just for the sake of AVIC and accept it.
CAST is quite reputable think tank with 15 years in the business. No aggressive presence in mass-media compared to other 'independent analysts', with many of their forecasts coming to reality, while there were some mistakes.
While membership in last two organizations doesn't automatically mean that you are super guru, it means meanwhile that you are somewhat more serious than Alexander Goltz or Pavel Felgengauer.
Citation that I put in previous post do not intend to troll someone's patriotic feelings.
Just thought it would be interesting to read. Honestly, I wouldn't expect such show-down from SARI guy to Russian.
So - perhaps he was trolling him, was trying to hand a line or he (or they both) was drunk - who knows.
I am not familiar with CAST. Rosoboronexport as the official export arm agency for Russia can also make nationalistic and unreliable report, like the Su-33 purchase and Su-35 purchase by Chinese last 2 years ago which turn out totally just fantasy. What's makes us think CAST will be different? There are alot of times, Russian claiming they get some info from Chinese which turn out just make up news.
I will treat this report as BS.
PLAAF has very strict criteria for their operation fleet. They will not simply just for the sake of AVIC and accept it.
Usually I'd go with that, but they're also practical. Sometimes the best way to troubleshoot is to just go along with the program and let it mature.
Usually I'd go with that, but they're also practical. Sometimes the best way to troubleshoot is to just go along with the program and let it mature.
i really hope they will put it on the J-10B
I am not familiar with CAST. Rosoboronexport as the official export arm agency for Russia can also make nationalistic and unreliable report, like the Su-33 purchase and Su-35 purchase by Chinese last 2 years ago which turn out totally just fantasy. What's makes us think CAST will be different? There are alot of times, Russian claiming they get some info from Chinese which turn out just make up news.
I will treat this report as BS.
i also doubt the veracity of this report, taking into account past experience with russian sources. Without chinese sources, this news is not credible to me. Almost all the J11b use WS-10. The 2 facts dont mix.
Usually I'd go with that, but they're also practical. Sometimes the best way to troubleshoot is to just go along with the program and let it mature.
What makes you believe that producing hundreds of costly engines will solve the engine´s problems? Doesnt make sense. The problems are solved in the lab/factory, not in the airbases. i dont think PLA wants to waste money like that. They are very conservative, you know.
Because there are limits to what journalists can officially publish, primarily source verification, which is pretty hard to do until pictures pop up.
I was under the impression there were lots of pictures of the J-11B using the WS-10a, and other aircraft using various other kinds of engines, and more importantly, that these images showed them being used in situations that if not confirmed, at least very strongly suggested that the WS-10A and other engine types were well out of the realm of, "not even deployed because China can't figure it out."
And I was also under the impression that there were more than just images posted here, like untranslated documents or something.
I understand and agree that there is a limit to the things that reporters can publish, but they published the unverified, unsourced images of the J-20 then the J-31, and before that, the PS'ed images of the "stealthy" JH-7B didn't they? The WS-10A has better sources than that. Or, so I thought.
If I'm mistaken, then I'm glad I brought it up so I can set myself straight.
What makes you believe that producing hundreds of costly engines will solve the engine´s problems? Doesnt make sense. The problems are solved in the lab/factory, not in the airbases. i dont think PLA wants to waste money like that. They are very conservative, you know.
If the problem is related to organizational and production assembly factors, then you simply don't get anywhere by sitting on your hands while you try to figure things out in a laboratory. It sounds like the problems are not related to design but execution, and there is absolutely no way to troubleshoot and improve upon execution except to go through the process, find the bugs, and fix them.
Pictures of J-11Bs with WS-10s tells us that the engines are in full production because get information that we trust corroborating with the pictures that we see. I guess when I made my original comment I was referring mostly to the inability for journalists to confirm the information leaks themselves to pair with the picture. I don't think any of that information has been officially published, but then again I wouldn't know what has or hasn't been visibly published about the WS-10. After giving it some thought I think there is a way to prove that they're in production by following the numbers on the nose, but that's a lot of trouble XD.I was under the impression there were lots of pictures of the J-11B using the WS-10a, and other aircraft using various other kinds of engines, and more importantly, that these images showed them being used in situations that if not confirmed, at least very strongly suggested that the WS-10A and other engine types were well out of the realm of, "not even deployed because China can't figure it out."
And I was also under the impression that there were more than just images posted here, like untranslated documents or something.
I understand and agree that there is a limit to the things that reporters can publish, but they published the unverified, unsourced images of the J-20 then the J-31, and before that, the PS'ed images of the "stealthy" JH-7B didn't they? The WS-10A has better sources than that. Or, so I thought.
If I'm mistaken, then I'm glad I brought it up so I can set myself straight.
The fact, China can increase the the lifespan of an AL-31 engines makes me even think those stat of WS-10A has MTBO 300 hrs are just bull..
The Chinese People's Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) has developed its own service life extension modifications for the Russian-made Salyut AL-31F engine, a Moscow-based defence and foreign policy think-tank has reported.
The modifications to the AL-31F/FN P.2 series engine increase its operational limits by more than 65 per cent - from 900 to 1,500 flight hours, according to the privately owned Centre for the Analysis of Strategies and Technologies (CAST).
The AL-31F engine is the powerplant for several types of aircraft in the PLAAF inventory: the Sukhoi Su-27 (which is also licence-produced at the Shenyang Aircraft Works as the J-11), the Su-30MKK and the Chengdu Aerospace Corporation J-10. The AL-31FN is a special derivative of the original AL-31F design that was developed by the Salyut plant in Moscow for a single-engine application to be fitted to the J-10.
The service life modifications were reportedly developed at the PLAAF Overhaul Plant Number 5719. The key to the service life extension is a specific set of improved, Chinese-made components that are part of what is described as a "re-manufacturing kit" that is introduced during the process of a full-scale remanufacturing and overhaul process.
The plant is located near the city of Chengdu in Sichuan province, employs 2,000 personnel and is reported to be a model of innovation within the PLAAF's network of repair plants. During the past several years the facility has initiated 63 different research and development programmes and has been awarded more than 20 state prizes for achievements in technological innovation. In the same time period, the plant's assets have more than doubled from CNY1.1 billion (USD147.2 million) in 2004 to CNY2.9 billion today.
The plant's officials credit the success of their overhaul process to a decision taken in 2004, when some of the first AL-31F engines were presented to the plant by the PLAAF for overhaul. A decision was taken, according to the Chinese news sources originally cited, to completely reorganise the overhaul process. This streamlining of the overhaul disassembly and servicing line resulted in a 27.3 per cent decrease in the time required to complete an overhaul and increased the plant's production capacity by 60 per cent.
This level of improvement in the engine's design demonstrates that the Chinese have achieved near autonomy in the support of these Russian-made engines. Russian specialists who spoke to Jane's state that this is "another example of how the technology sold to the Chinese during the 1990s has now been fully assimilated by them. It is only a matter of time before the engines that China produces will be as good as or better than anything designed here in Russia".