Chinese Engine Development

So guys, it appears to me that it has been agreed that the WP-14 engine, including the WP-14 II and WP-14 III have been abandoned. The Kunlun engine is no more.

Also, there were reports of a WS-9 II under development...was that canceled as well? It seems that such an engine would be a waste of resources.

What is the status of the WS-10? We see it being used on the J11B and J11BS, but why hasn't it been placed on the J-15?

Additionally, the J-20 engine configuration is a mystery if you ask me. One prototype is equipped with a WS-1X engine....which is probably a WS-10 derivative. tphuang believes it to be an overclocked WS-10 fitted with a stealth nozzle. Overclocking a WS-10 will reduce its life expectancy and require frequent maintenance, so another prototype is built using a standard engine. The AL-31F-powered prototype will do most of the flight testing, and the WS-1X prototype will do only certain essential flight testing requiring greater power. Having said that, why use AL-31F at all???????? Why not one prototype equipped with WS-10 and another equipped with an overclocked WS-1X? There should be no need for a Russian engine at all.That baffles me and seems to indicate more problems with the WS-10 design.

ReneDad said:

Shi is a metallurgist. I think he or his institute is related to develope the monocrystalline alloy blade, the crown jewel of modern aeroengine technology. Without monocrystalline blades, China will not make any 4G engines with T/W ratio of 9 to 10. And without such kind of engines, all the efforts of developing 4G fighters are just waste of time and money.

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Ya, I knew of Shi's contribution. What I meant was what to make of the contrasting views of the different sources. The news from official sources seems to be more optimistic on the jet engines than from what we got from the usual sources.

Centrist said:

So guys, it appears to me that it has been agreed that the WP-14 engine, including the WP-14 II and WP-14 III have been abandoned. The Kunlun engine is no more.

Also, there were reports of a WS-9 II under development...was that canceled as well? It seems that such an engine would be a waste of resources.

What is the status of the WS-10? We see it being used on the J11B and J11BS, but why hasn't it been placed on the J-15?

...

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1. the FWP-14 variants are still in Mass Production



2.further improving FWS-9 reliability and durability.

3.FWS-10H is just qualified.

flateric said:

seems that this message from Maya came mostly unnoticed...

1 Week Ago #1017 maya
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Re: Ws10a
J-20 demonstrator is powered by AL-31Fs
Last edited by maya; 1 Week Ago at 12:29 PM.

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he is probably right.....

It is speculated that there are 2 prototypes. One with a regular AL-31F and is a non-flying prototype. One which flew has the silvery nozzles. What exactly is this engine?

Well the popular belief is the WS-10G (WS-1X?) 14t class engine (I have seen the figure 15t as well). It seems this was NOT done by Shenyang, the WS-10 maker, but another company. CAC not too keen on putting an engined developed by Shenyang?

But like somebody said, it could be painted AL-31F nozzles. though I am not sure how the J-20 will ever take-off with a regular AL-31F. Don't think the Russians are going to provide a few 117S samples . An engine by MMPP Salut? AL-31FNx-Mx? This is possible since CAC and Salut has worked together on the J-10.

Anyway, time will tell...

PS:

I think you asked about the WS-15? I vaguely remember last year Maya saying something like "High altitude Core Testing" had completed successfully. There are some images of the supposed WS-15 core.

Centrist said:

Additionally, the J-20 engine configuration is a mystery if you ask me. One prototype is equipped with a WS-1X engine....which is probably a WS-10 derivative. tphuang believes it to be an overclocked WS-10 fitted with a stealth nozzle. Overclocking a WS-10 will reduce its life expectancy and require frequent maintenance, so another prototype is built using a standard engine. The AL-31F-powered prototype will do most of the flight testing, and the WS-1X prototype will do only certain essential flight testing requiring greater power. Having said that, why use AL-31F at all???????? Why not one prototype equipped with WS-10 and another equipped with an overclocked WS-1X? There should be no need for a Russian engine at all.That baffles me and seems to indicate more problems with the WS-10 design.

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Only AL-31F/FN

maya said:

J-20 demonstrator is powered by AL-31Fs

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maya said:

Only AL-31F/FN

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Hmm ... but why then this "strange" nozzle ?? Is it a specialised AL-31F or FN esp. for the J-20 ?? Is it really simply a painted one ??? But why ? To fool us all here and suggest a new powerplant ? Or really some speacial treatment for IR-reduction (but then why on a prototype for its first flight).

And most of all if this is "only" the AL-31F/FN ... are there two or then only one prototype ready ? Is this single prototype then repainted (see yellow parts) and sometimes again plain grey again too hide something or to fool us.

And finally could You tell us if it is the AL-31F or FN ??? IMO I "expected" more likely the FN, since CAC knows this one with its gear-box systems on the bottom ....

I know many critics suggest too much "wishfull thinking" ... but why then such a charade ?

Deino

maya said:

Only AL-31F/FN

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u know, it's been said/confirmed by others and experts that the entire plane is indigenous, and yes, including the engine.

maya said:

Only AL-31F/FN

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maya,the maiden flew of J-20 prototype with engines were silver, the out look of the engines were not AL-31F/FN or WS-10a, every body think the engines were unknow new engines, how do you explain for this?

Deino said:

Hmm ... but why then this "strange" nozzle ?? Is it a specialised AL-31F or FN esp. for the J-20 ?? Is it really simply a painted one ??? But why ? To fool us all here and suggest a new powerplant ? Or really some speacial treatment for IR-reduction (but then why on a prototype for its first flight).

And most of all if this is "only" the AL-31F/FN ... are there two or then only one prototype ready ? Is this single prototype then repainted (see yellow parts) and sometimes again plain grey again too hide something or to fool us.

And finally could You tell us if it is the AL-31F or FN ??? IMO I "expected" more likely the FN, since CAC knows this one with its gear-box systems on the bottom ....

I know many critics suggest too much "wishfull thinking" ... but why then such a charade ?

Deino

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I tend to believe there are actually 2 prototypes with different nozzles. The silvery nozzles with the jagged edge is not something that looks painted on. As to the engine core, it can be quite independent of the nozzles, and the 2 prototypes could be using the same type of engine core.

The interesting news is, according to Maya, FWS-10H has been certified.

Deino said:

Hmm ... but why then this "strange" nozzle ?? Is it a specialised AL-31F or FN esp. for the J-20 ?? Is it really simply a painted one ??? But why ? To fool us all here and suggest a new powerplant ? Or really some speacial treatment for IR-reduction (but then why on a prototype for its first flight).

And most of all if this is "only" the AL-31F/FN ... are there two or then only one prototype ready ? Is this single prototype then repainted (see yellow parts) and sometimes again plain grey again too hide something or to fool us.

And finally could You tell us if it is the AL-31F or FN ??? IMO I "expected" more likely the FN, since CAC knows this one with its gear-box systems on the bottom ....

I know many critics suggest too much "wishfull thinking" ... but why then such a charade ?

Deino

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Probably Maya himself also got confuse.... I will say don't put too much faith on a forumer..

Pictures don't lie.. Everybody can see its new type of engine. But he insist AL-31FN J-20 prototype only which leaves it to be desire....