Chinese Economics Thread

[bladerunner]

OK so you guys while acknowledging that the planet is going through a warmer period, it is pointless in trying to prevent the occurance of some of the more realistic predictions?

 

[bladerunner]

Do they care about convincing the Japanese people not to consume whale meat? No, because as usual this more about power and seeing people obey their commands than saving the whales. This display of arrogance is really more for people in the US. You see this mentality in Washington. If one thinks they're right, they don't have to educate or convince or sway. They just bark out orders and they expect you to obey. That's all in fine if you're exercising you're belief in your own power. But is that going to get the job done faster or will that just piss people off where nothing ever gets done? And just like in Washington anything less than barking out an order and expecting obedience is a sign of weakness so they have no other tactic except barking out orders and expecting people to obey. Yeah sure the'll say they tried to educate but I bet the first thing they ever did was intimidate through vilifying.

Are you of a similar mind when it comes to continued hardwood logging in the tropical rainforests to meet world/esp Chinese demands. Enviromentalists suggests we are destroying a habitat that is home to many plants which can help mankind combat disease.
Perhaps Vesicles could advise us on whether thats a load of B.S.

 

[vesicles]

Are you of a similar mind when it comes to continued hardwood logging in the tropical rainforests to meet world/esp Chinese demands. Enviromentalists suggests we are destroying a habitat that is home to many plants which can help mankind combat disease.
Perhaps Vesicles could advise us on whether thats a load of B.S.

Hey! I'm a tree-hugger!!

 

[daveman]

Yawn.

Worried about global warming in China when the firework is about to start on the other side of earth. Better make sure you have your eyes on the right continent, boys, otherwise you'll miss the show when it begins.

Right, Popeye? Hahahah...

 

[bladerunner]

Hey! I'm a tree-hugger!!

Thats nice, but I was thinking that you would be in a perfect position to confirm whether the Amzonian rainforest contain plants that can be useful medicinally?

I remember watching a program suggesting they could come up with a stronger anti bacteria serum from crocodiles and down in the deep oceans theres this living organism (I cant for the earth remember what it was) but one would be able to extract something and use it for a very powerful painkiller much stronger and better than morphine.

But that was quite sometime ago and Ive never heard anymore of it.

 

[AssassinsMace]

Are you of a similar mind when it comes to continued hardwood logging in the tropical rainforests to meet world/esp Chinese demands. Enviromentalists suggests we are destroying a habitat that is home to many plants which can help mankind combat disease.
Perhaps Vesicles could advise us on whether thats a load of B.S.

It's not Chinese demands. Those trees are being used to make products for the West. Didn't you say something about kicking the can? So who's kicking the can now? Blind obedience to environmentalists is why the world has to turned to fossil fuels.

 

[Engineer]

Even when no fossil fuel is involved, people will still complain. People even complain when wind power plants are to be built. Plans of building wind mills near residential area will get people upset about noise and cancer-causing EM waves. Plans of building wind mills offshore will get people complain about the damage to scenery.

 

[AssassinsMace]

Don't forget the birds that get killed by windmills. I guess they'll blame China for that just like China is being blamed for the Rwandan massacre because the bush-cutting tool machetes used were made in China.

 

[tphuang]

And who was the first one to kick the can? And who was against nuclear power for energy? I've read some the anti-nuclear activists back in the day now regret their actions? And the world is suppose to obey anyone that hides behind the environment?

And I love how US and European wind farmers are complaining about China not buying their windmills. If China can make windmills faster and cheaper isn't that better for the environment? WHich bring ups the green activists who think about the dollar before the environment. The developed world wants the developing world to go green... by buying their expensive technology.

There is a huge difference here. The group complaining about Chinese wind farm procurement practices are the wind farmers, not the environmentalist. I don't know why you are using this to attack them.

As for the complaints about Chinese wind power procurement, they are valid in certain ways, because of the recent buy China clauses in the stimulus packages. It's not as bad as Vestas or Suzlon are complaining, but China definitely forms policies that favours domestic firms. And there are a lot of problems with the Chinese Wind Power industry despite all the good news. They have a lot of installed capacity, but a lot of them are not connected or used efficiently. That's the problem. It certainly doesn't make sense for you to blame developed countries for seeing problems in Chinese wind power industry when they are real legitimately flawed.

People should be concerned about the environment and preservation of nature. But are we going to obey the likes of people who obviously have a bad track record and are only now being alarmed because prosperity is not just a first world's game now? And you really have to be suspicious that they continue to use the tactic of intimidation through vilifying people. That's act of those concerned with power and not of the environment.

China doing it faster and cheaper is probably going to do more for the developing world going green than anything the usual suspects will ever do. Anybody watch Whale Wars? Those people outright lie and it's on tape and they don't care. Do they care about convincing the Japanese people not to consume whale meat? No, because as usual this more about power and seeing people obey their commands than saving the whales. This display of arrogance is really more for people in the US. You see this mentality in Washington. If one thinks they're right, they don't have to educate or convince or sway. They just bark out orders and they expect you to obey. That's all in fine if you're exercising you're belief in your own power. But is that going to get the job done faster or will that just piss people off where nothing ever gets done? And just like in Washington anything less than barking out an order and expecting obedience is a sign of weakness so they have no other tactic except barking out orders and expecting people to obey. Yeah sure the'll say they tried to educate but I bet the first thing they ever did was intimidate through vilifying.

why do you connect environmentalist to US policies. They are not same. Now, the argument that environmentalist tend to exaggerate the problem to scare the public is true, but that doesn't mean the problem isn't there. At the heart of it, these guys are not there to expand Washington's agenda, but rather to serve for something they believe in.

Don't forget the birds that get killed by windmills. I guess they'll blame China for that just like China is being blamed for the Rwandan massacre because the bush-cutting tool machetes used were made in China.

There are a lot of excessive blaming on China. Some of that is deserved and some is undeserved. You seem to be stuck on this believe that everyone is plotting against China.

 

[AssassinsMace]

There is a huge difference here. The group complaining about Chinese wind farm procurement practices are the wind farmers, not the environmentalist. I don't know why you are using this to attack them.

As for the complaints about Chinese wind power procurement, they are valid in certain ways, because of the recent buy China clauses in the stimulus packages. It's not as bad as Vestas or Suzlon are complaining, but China definitely forms policies that favours domestic firms. And there are a lot of problems with the Chinese Wind Power industry despite all the good news. They have a lot of installed capacity, but a lot of them are not connected or used efficiently. That's the problem. It certainly doesn't make sense for you to blame developed countries for seeing problems in Chinese wind power industry when they are real legitimately flawed.

why do you connect environmentalist to US policies. They are not same. Now, the argument that environmentalist tend to exaggerate the problem to scare the public is true, but that doesn't mean the problem isn't there. At the heart of it, these guys are not there to expand Washington's agenda, but rather to serve for something they believe in.


There are a lot of excessive blaming on China. Some of that is deserved and some is undeserved. You seem to be stuck on this believe that everyone is plotting against China.

This is not about being correct or getting the facts straight because I've already established the other side doesn't do that. This is about playing the same game. If it were the other way around you would hear a lot more outrageousness and nit-picking and spin of every little angle, i.e., trying to blame the Rwandan massacre on China. And yes that's what was charged and not my interpretation. The specifics you point to don't matter because specifics don't matter to them when they make charges.

BTW, I wouldn't call it "thinking everyone is plotting against China." That's sounds paranoid. Paranoid in their part is more like it. Which is why I don't trust anyone with that much paranoia to think they know what's best for China. All I do is show counter arguments. Is there something wrong with putting them mired deep in their own flawed logic?