Chinese Economics Thread

[Blitzo]

Yeah but at what cost?
The air, water pollution is completely without any working regulations that is killing thousands if not millions. Heavy metal tainted rice, the collapsing fishing resources forcing fishermen to poach fishing water on the other side of the planet.
Don't think it's anything to praise openhanded.

I think you're misinterpreting his argument.

He's not saying that China hasn't had its own fair share of problems and is somehow perfect -- but rather he's saying that China has had its own fair share of problems, and that other nations in similar circumstances from a few decades ago had also experienced similar problems (proportional to their national circumstances, such as demographics, and baseline development levels), yet many of those nations of that level have arguably not experienced the success that China has managed to achieve in the past few decades and is arguably still managing to achieve.

 

[Equation]

What does DC have to do with current discussion on corrupt governance in China? Oh! You think A cancels B...?

Oh you mean ONLY China has corrupt officials and the US dosen't?

 

[AssassinsMace]

I think you're misinterpreting his argument.

He's not saying that China hasn't had its own fair share of problems and is somehow perfect -- but rather he's saying that China has had its own fair share of problems, and that other nations in similar circumstances from a few decades ago had also experienced similar problems (proportional to their national circumstances, such as demographics, and baseline development levels), yet many of those nations of that level have arguably not experienced the success that China has managed to achieve in the past few decades and is arguably still managing to achieve.

Yes the China haters like to spin. They all believe if you don't hate China, you must think China is a utopia. Like Japan's reputation as being clean and care about quality isn't a fib? They just had a scandal where Japanese food companies were shipping expired food to foreign countries to be sold. It supports the suspicion that they also shipped contaminated Fukushima radioactive produce from farms in the area that would go to Tokyo instead went to foreign countries while produce at Tokyo markets had no trace of radioactivity. Like mercury tainted dolphin meat isn't being passed off as whale meat for consumers to eat? Like Japan isn't corrupt filled with a crony economy. That's why Japan's economy is frozen because the few elites that own everything won't give up anything for the necessary reforms to happen.

 

[Blitzo]

Yes the China haters like to spin. They all believe if you don't hate China, you must think China is a utopia. Like Japan's reputation as being clean and care about quality isn't a fib? They just had a scandal where Japanese food companies were shipping expired food to foreign countries to be sold. It supports the suspicion that they also shipped contaminated Fukushima radioactive produce from farms in the area that would go to Tokyo instead went to foreign countries while produce at Tokyo markets had no trace of radioactivity. Like mercury tainted dolphin meat isn't being passed off as whale meat for consumers to eat? Like Japan isn't corrupt filled with a crony economy. That's why Japan's economy is frozen because the few elites that own everything won't give up anything for the necessary reforms to happen.

I think it's best for all of us and this thread to keep the discussion as confined to the thread's title.

The reason I very much dislike it when some members go and criticize China in blunt ways is that it always ends up becoming a "race to the bottom" to see who can out criticize whom.

So I think we should agree to keep Japan out of this, and also to end this talk about corruption in China and what not, because this particular strand of topic has been discussed to more or less a stand still already in previous threads as well as this one, and if we continue, this thread will just end up being locked again.

 

[AssassinsMace]

Just pointing out people who wouldn't know aren't in a position to judge because they provide no actual experience to know any solution. Unless there's an admission there's no actual useful criticism and it's just bashing.

 

[Janiz]

Like Asian democracies don't have corruption? There was a study I read years ago that looked at how long it took for Western countries to get from point A to point B during a critical time of an industrial economy. For them it was in the forty year range. China... around a dozen years, faster than anyone else.

Your argument is completely invalid as those 'Western countries' had to come up with ideas and made the world go forward. China bought it, not invented it so it 'developed' faster. And it doesn't have anything to do with democracy but money. North Korea was better developed country until th 70's compared to both China and South Korea. Sorry for destroying your argument...

 

[Blitzo]

Just pointing out people who wouldn't know aren't in a position to judge because they provide no actual experience to know any solution. Unless there's an admission there's no actual useful criticism and it's just bashing.

I do agree with you, though I think neutralizing their attempt at bashing and not choosing to counter retaliate (i.e.: not trying to bash them back) is a better course of action -- at least on this forum, where these discussions often end in multi page long squabbles that end up getting threads closed.

Your argument is completely invalid as those 'Western countries' had to come up with ideas and made the world go forward. China bought it, not invented it so it 'developed' faster.

You are correct, but in that case, every developing nation with access to "those" technologies would have been able to develop at a similar pace or profile to what China has achieved... and that is what A-Mace is partly saying, is that compared to some past nations which had developed as well as other developing nations in a similar situation to China when it began to truly develop, China had done quite well if not very well.

 

[AssassinsMace]

Your argument is completely invalid as those 'Western countries' had to come up with ideas and made the world go forward. China bought it, not invented it so it 'developed' faster. And it doesn't have anything to do with democracy but money. North Korea was better developed country until th 70's compared to both China and South Korea. Sorry for destroying your argument...

Your argument is invalid because as charged China is state capitalism unlike the West as noted by Westerners. So China didn't follow the Western way. China can't do better than the West at their own game as many believe. Sorry you're too emotional that you can't read carefully. I didn't bring up that communism was the only system that was systematically corrupt. So if you want to argue that corruption has nothing to do with democracy but money instead go argue it with the one that did bring it up.

 

[Janiz]

Your argument is invalid because as charged China is state capitalism unlike the West as noted by Westerners. So China didn't follow the Western way. China can't do better than the West at their own game as many believe.

Maybe it's too late or too early to think clearly for you. If you want to prove your point that democracy is dragging other countries developement it doesn't have anything with that as I already pointed out. Why do you think PRC economy started to grow in the 70's? Don't you think that opening for 'Western countries' with Japan being the first one and later followed by US and othe countries with their money and technology invested in China have some logical connection? Can you connect the dots or will you imply that godly Chinese got the technology from space and developed everything on their own thanks to the power of peculiar, Chinese communism which is better than any other communism around the world?

 

[AssassinsMace]

Maybe it's too late or too early to think clearly for you. If you want to prove your point that democracy is dragging other countries developement it doesn't have anything with that as I already pointed out. Why do you think PRC economy started to grow in the 70's? Don't you think that opening for 'Western countries' with Japan being the first one and later followed by US and othe countries with their money and technology invested in China have some logical connection? Can you connect the dots or will you imply that godly Chinese got the technology from space and developed everything on their own thanks to the power of peculiar, Chinese communism which is better than any other communism around the world?

Where did I argue that democracy is dragging other countries' development? Where did I say communism in China was the best. I didn't. Is this how the people like you always operate generalizing what others may have said or make it up to claim I said it? China was the number one economy for most of its 5000 year history. Didn't need your help for that. Sorry to inform you but it was overseas Chinese that invested into China. They were the first that started the ball rolling. And let's not forget how colonialist stole China's wealth to make themselves rich. Not to mention other means like getting people addicted to drugs to make money. To claim China owes those people for its advancement today is laughable because China and the rest of the world could argue the same to the West. Europe is a land of little natural resources. Hence why the countries that have little have more a conquering history of taking things. You mean like how Western colonialisms didn't take others' ideas and put their name on it? Yeah like every modern weapon wouldn't exist without the basic designs coming out of China inventing it? Where would you be without all those weapons. It sure wasn't being benevolent that got you world power.