Chinese Economics Thread

[AssassinsMace]

People who have a generalized hate are motivated by mostly selfishness. Any other reason said are just excuses to hide that selfishness. If people actually told the truth they're really motivated by selfishness, no one would listen and follow. I've mentioned this before when I was in college I got to know some Young Republicans. I was around them long enough to hear their world views. They believe the Republican Party should be the only party and they should be in control of everything. That by their own definition is called communism. Republicans are the most anti-communist hence why the saying, "Only Nixon can go to China." If a Democrat did what Nixon did, he or she would be labeled a communist. So why would the Young Republicans I knew hate something they embrace for themselves? Because it's simply about power for themselves. They just don't like it when someone else holds that power. Calling it whatever is just to distinguish it from theirs. I come across people that have racist views yet they dare to speak of human rights regarding the people they hate? How can a racist care about the human rights for someone they despise for having different racial features? They're simply wrapping their hate in something more palatable for it to be easily consumed by the public therefore their hate becomes legitimate.

 

[Doombreed]

Let's just stick to his first statement. As for empirical evidence, neither you nor I have it.

Do you agree that "No one hates China just because you're communist."
Do you agree that "It's kinda cool to be communists again."

Let me break this down for you. No one hates China because you're communist the way people in the McCarthy era hates communists. It's not "Better Dead than Red" anymore. People don't like China, irrationally, because you're China. Not because you're communists. You missed the forest for the trees. If China had a Nationalist government, but are not in the west's orbit like Korea or Japan. People still wouldn't like you.

As for communism becoming cool again. Here, I'm refering to the youth. As in, all the Che t-shirts. Some of the hipster cool crowd with their communism symbolism. What I'm getting at, is people don't have the same aversion to pure communism the way people in the 50s to 80s do anymore. Thus enforcing my first statement.

 

[solarz]

If the American building is occupied by Aliens and by destroying it you shut down all the energy fields around all their other alien space crafts thereby enabling friendly forces to destory it? There will be monuments built for the suicide bombers in Central Park.

OT, but that particular movie trope makes no sense in real life. No real military system would leave its core components exposed like that. It would be like putting an aircraft carrier's engines on the flight deck.

If an alien force makes use of shield technology, and that shield depends on a centralized power core, you can be sure that the power core would be buried deep underground in a fortified bunker. Furthermore, why would they ever have only a single core? It would be far more secure to have multiple cores with built-in redundancy. Good luck trying to destroy a dozen cores simultaneously, each of which is housed in a heavily fortified bunker.

 

[shen]

any link of China is joining TPP? very interesting

not joining, talks about joining.

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just like joining the WOT was useful to push through reforms against significant domestic opposition, TPP standards can be useful too to push through reforms.

 

[Blitzo]

Let me break this down for you. No one hates China because you're communist the way people in the McCarthy era hates communists. It's not "Better Dead than Red" anymore. People don't like China, irrationally, because you're China. Not because you're communists. You missed the forest for the trees. If China had a Nationalist government, but are not in the west's orbit like Korea or Japan. People still wouldn't like you.

Everywhere on western media images of China have it overlaid with symbols of communism or police states, virtually every second article on China brings up that it is a "communist state," and some places go outright to call it a "regime".
Virtually every reddit thread that involves China has a chain of comments related to points 1-4 I listed.
In NZ we had an election a while ago and this evening news show host called John Campbell basically promoted people to vote because "some places still don't have this freedom" and then showed a clip of tankman.

These are just a few examples of course, but if you don't think common everyday discourse is helping perpetuate dislike for China through the factors I listed, then we really must watch different news and read different sites.

As for communism becoming cool again. Here, I'm refering to the youth. As in, all the Che t-shirts. Some of the hipster cool crowd with their communism symbolism. What I'm getting at, is people don't have the same aversion to pure communism the way people in the 50s to 80s do anymore. Thus enforcing my first statement.

Whether people still hate communism as much as they did in the 50s and 80s is beside the point. My opinion is that the fact that China is communist today is still a contributing factor.

And wearing Che t shirts and occasionally sporting a hammer and sickle only means they enjoy hipster fashion trends, it does not reflect their political and social orientation.
OTOH there are also some who may be disillusioned in the modern economy and believe in a few what one may call "socialist" ideals but those individuals are few and far between and that does not mean they are neutral towards China either due to other reasons I listed.

So no, communism is far from being "cool" again, young people just enjoy toiling in their little subcultures. That doesn't make their brand of cool accepted or influential, it just means their type of cool exists in a small and pitiful manner.

I never said everyone hates china only because they are communist. What I did say was that it was a major reason among others. Most people don't know what communism means anymore. They simply hear the word and think communist country = bad.
Basically, it's become an emotionally charged word akin to totalitarianism, or democracy, or freedom. They should all have a little "TM" next to them when used by politicians or media.

 

[Jeff Head]

>>>>>>>>>> MODERATOR'S INSTRUCTIONS <<<<<<<<<<
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Guys, the discussion on this thread is getting far too politcal, and there are some meangingless arguements going on. Clean it up, or those posts will be deleted and the thread will be temorarilty closed.

I know we are having a basic level discussion on the forum, at the highest levels, about politics...but the rules we have are still in place, and unless changed, they will still be enforced.

DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS MODERATION

>>>>>>>> END MODERATOR'S INSTRUCTIONS <<<<<<<<
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[shen]

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The government of Mexico announced that it has chosen China Railway Corp to build a high-speed rail line connecting the capital of Mexico City with Queretaro, a manufacturing city 210 km to the north. The project is slated to start in December and the line is expected to begin operation in 2017, according to Mexican government officials, at a cost of $3.75 billion. As the competition heats up to win high-speed rail contracts abroad, China has struck first, winning the first such bid in Latin America. The question is how China managed to win, and what that means for competitors like Japan and Germany.

This will be Mexico’s reentry into passenger rail in general, after the sector was privatized in the 1990s. Its government expects the train to travel at speeds of up to 300 kph, carrying as many as 23,000 passengers a day and cutting the commute time from two-and-a-half hours to 58 minutes. Mexico’s transportation ministry said there were 16 companies originally interested in the deal, among them Germany’s Siemens and Japan’s Mitsubishi, but that only the Chinese conglomerate submitted a proposal by the October 15 deadline.

Underlying Mexico’s decision to choose China, and what may have made it the only country able to meet to proposal deadline, was its decision to finance 85 percent of the project through the Export-Import Bank of China. While Japan has offered in the past to finance whole portions of larger projects, such as a proposed maglev high-speed rail line connecting the major urban centers of the U.S. East Coast, it has not shown a willingness to finance entire projects.

China Railway Corp’s low bid and short timeline, not to mention willingness to finance the lion’s share of the project, likely met Mexican Transportation Minister Gerardo Ruiz Esparza’s desire to have “Mexico’s infrastructure… quickly up to date to meet the present and future needs of the country and its regions.”

It may also be that Japanese and other Western firms do not share China’s threshold for risk. Providing security for workers and executives from China will be difficult along such a long and exposed project. With kidnappings by Mexican cartels in exchange for ransom still rampant, other companies may not have been willing to submit proposals without adequately evaluating and pricing-in their security risks. That is not to say that China did not perform its due diligence with regards to security, but that the risk may not have been accurately reflected in their bid. As breaking into new markets and securing employment for its vast labor force often trump China’s profit motive, Beijing is likely to win out in riskier, high-cost infrastructure bids.

 

[AssassinsMace]

Risks in Mexico are too great? Yeah Mexico is dangerous but how do Western companies operate in this new world where a lot of money can be made in the developing world? China might be king of the mountain by just by that alone.

 

[broadsword]

Kidnappings are committed largely against fellow Mexicans and adventurous Gringos. Yet Mexico still attracts lots of tourists from the West. Securing that contract is a good beach head for China's high speed rail in the Americas.

 

[tphuang]

delete all political related posts since Jeff's last warning + doombreed posts that caused the problems in the first place. Please get back on topic. I could've delete the past 3 pages off posts since nothing is related to chinese economics.