Chinese Economics Thread

generalmeng

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I agree that Chinese companies are usually targeting China first before taking on the rest of the world, while American companies usually have a more global mindset to begin. However, I think you are quite incorrect in thinking there are "few" companies with a global footprint, it is much larger than you realize.

There are many Chinese companies with a global footprint, but they are not consumer facing, for example you have Fuyao automotive glass with manufacturing in China, US, and Germany, LK Industrial is supplying the Gigapress to Tesla (Directly in China, through subsidiary Idra SpA in USA), of course Huawei networking.

In other cases you have branding or OEM deals, ie. GE Appliances is a brand of Haier (also huge global footprint), or HikVision which sells a great deal of their goods to resellers.

Basically only recently did Chinese companies have fully professional management. 20 years ago, it's still common to find executives without formal education, or working up from the factory floor. They simply lacked the global experience to create global success. Often they would venture outside of China and face "culture shock". Acquisitions often failed due to management clashes. Chinese managers are now much more well-travelled, Chinese education has more global focus (ie. professors from all over the world), and executives might have foreign education credentials. You see DJI and TikTok quickly became leaders in the field.



I would add Korea is okay, but they have very few brands owing to their Chaebol economic policy where basically everything is owned by LG, Samsung, or Hyundai groups.
I think we also need to keep in mind China have only been fully industrialized and integrated into the world trade network for the last 20 years. Where as legacy brands have been around for about 100 years. Korean electronics was in the world trade about 10 years earlier than Chinese products. When samsung started selling fridges, China didnt even know how to make them.
 
This isn't South Korean economic policy. It's just a rigged game. China in its effort to avoid exactly this same shit from happening, ironically ended up on the opposite end of the spectrum where SOE are the real torchbearers of Chinese industry and technological progress. Or at least, private enterprises with lots of state approval if not even material endorsement. Still, the Chinese system wins out over the long term as it has a bit more margin to avoid the inevitable pitfalls of long-term, unchecked capitalism. Western societies, Japan, and south korea will completely reform before 2050. If not, they will have revolutions.
South Korea's economic model is very suitable for South Korea's situation. Effective industrial policy balances two main concerns: market competition and economies of scale. South Korea has a population that is less than many of the larger Chinese provinces, so it lacks the population base and the market size to support multiple competing companies within each sector that are able to achieve the requisite economies of scale to be competitive globally. Realizing this constraint, South Korean policy of supporting multiple vertically-integrated, competing chaebols is the next best alternative. The only other viable industrial policy for a smaller nation would be to focus on niche sectors only (ie Taiwan), which comes with its own set of drawbacks. China's economy and market, on the other hand, possesses a size and scale that all other nations can only dream off, so China can much better optimize its industrial policy to promote the most efficient organization with each sector to achieve an optimal balance of competition/economies of scale within each sector.

In contrast, US has less ability to just rely on its domestic market and as such use politicking to secure captive markets. Even so, US usually doesn't manage to reach out much further than either itself + anglo countries and/or EU.

Basically we are all tribal creatures and China makes most of it's revenue selling to Asians, while western Europeans make the most of their revenue selling to other western Europeans. In the end the market size and amount of people reached are similar.
In US's case, the domestic market is already saturated so the only option for growth is through expansion to overseas markets. US's development history is rather unique in that US industrialization and economic development was drive primarily by it's domestic market, and US companies only shifted attention to overseas markets once the potential within the domestic market was largely tapped already.
 

Santamaria

Junior Member
Registered Member
So if that's the case, does it mean that Indian economy is the third largest in the world? And almost 42% of China's economy? Because I strongly dispute that Indian GDP is that big in relation to China's.

Wikipedia GDP PPP below:


View attachment 129318

All economic metrics have pros and cons. I am not saying nominal GDP is the only thing or even the most important thing to look at. However, it is definitely one of the most measures of economic prosperity and success.
I mean, it is not weird that India is 40% of Chinese size in GDP PPP

India has same or more population than China, all that population working produces economic output.

Anyway even the GDP PPP does not measure the real size of a economy, GDP was created to track the change in one economy from one year to the next. It can be used to compare economies that are very similar in their structure like lets say Belarus and Russia, or Netherlands and Germany.

You cant use GDP to compare Russia and Germany though, or China and US.

Communist and post communist countries have artificially low GDP due to having free services. Something free does not add nothing to the GDP but obviously contributes to the real economy.

For example in Germany you have to pay medical insurance every month (when you work is paid by the employee but it is still a economic exchange reflected in the GDP, then you go to doctor and the doctor send a bill to the insurance, other economical exchange reflected in the GDP).

In Russia or China (and in some European countries like Spain or Portugal) that system does not exist. The doctors are simply employed by the government and you go there for free. Nothing is reflected in GDP.

In the US 20% of the GDP correspond to medical spends.

This is the reason of why when neoliberals (like Thatcher or Milei) arrive to a country and start to privatize everything (roads, medicine, education...) there is increase in the GDP but often reduction in the real production in the country.

You privatize roads, a new economical exchange appears that is reflected in the GDP. However nothing has been added to the real production of the country, that if something, is now more expensive because transport companies not have to pay to go by the roads.

It exist some level of correlation between GDP and the real economy, but is far looser than most people imagine.
Of course promoting GDP is very useful to push people like Milei to the power, so he privatize things that big investment companies can buy for a penny and then profit from it.
As those big investment companies are owners of all global media they have direct interest in promoting GDP as a measure of success, so people vote idiots like Milei, or support idiots like Gorbachev.


The reason for this is obvious coming from the name, GROSS domestic product. In accounting terms you are just counting income, without counting what you are spending to achieve that result.
If you are in a company, and your gross income is very high, but your spends to achieve that income are also very high you are in a worse position than a company with smaller gross but much smaller spends.

Of course this does not mean that US economy is shitty. US citizens are still the richest ones in the planet. But not so much as the nominal GDP or the per capita GDP in purchasing parity power suggest.
And overall, China being 4 times the US is a much bigger real economy than the US
 
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