Chinese Economics Thread

[azn_cyniq]

I didn't forget Huawei or ZTE. I said FEW Chinese companies have been able to go truly global and be like a multinational company with a strong brand value/presence globally. I didn't say none. Lenovo is among those few who have been able to do so. Of course Huawei as well, DJI ,Bytedance, Alibaba (though in decline nowadays), Shein (though they moved their headquarters to Singapore fearing US political power) etc. They a few but not as many as they should be. Just saying that lenovo is part of those few. So they shouldn't be despised like many are doing here.

I agree. Lenovo is far from the most innovative Chinese company, but they still made $57 billion in revenue and $1 billion in net income last year. At worst it's a somewhat profitable consumer electronics brand. It's better than nothing. If they're smart, then they'll use their profits to try to break into or create more profitable markets. Remember, BYD was barely profitable for decades before they blew up in the last few years.

 

[Randomuser]

Kind of agree with what you are saying, but we should look at it from another angle too.

A real world example of the execution of Chinese strategy, I realized, just happened this past week.



That new guy for as Taiwan leader the PRC does not like. After he takes office, three things happened.

1. Taiwan was blockaded for 2 days, surrounded. That is a military problem.

2. Taiwan had mainland China slap some economic sanctions on it. That is a economic problem.

3. The KMT passed legislation for more oversight on the government, and the DPP reacted poorly to this initiative. That is a political problem.

So, in the very first week of assuming the leadership position, Lai has a military problem, an economic problem, and a political problem.

If Lai is the opponent, and he does seem like a weak leader, well, these developments make the opponent even weaker.

How does giving your opponent a military problem, an economic problem, and Chinese nationalist providing the political problem, make the weak leader stronger? It does not. It makes Lai weaker.

That is pretty good strategy I feel. No cheap antics was needed. Cheap antics could be included, but if someone in the room says, "Why bother with that," there is really no good retort or justification for a cheap antic in this case to be directed at Lai.

So a lot of times, it appears that the Chinese are doing nothing.

But looking at the totality of the situation, and the subtleties of these moves, then it seems a little different.

Put ourselves in Lai's shoes. If we have a military problem, an economic problem, and a political problem, what exactly are we going to do?

Suppose Lai wants to push independence, but ignores the military problem, the economy problem, the political problem, then he probably will seem like a one issue politicians, just bent on one issue, Taiwan Independence, which is not completely supported by the Taiwan population.

Seem like the PRC and friends giving Lai these three problems all at once in the first week of his term, will limit his actions towards independence because seem likes others have set the agenda for him.

As we can see, how does the cheap shot fits into this strategy being executed right before us? Right, the cheap shot does not really fit in, so that is probably why the PRC rarely uses that.

I don't advocate for cheap or reactive tactics.

I don't advocate for only honorable tactics either.

I advocate for tactics that land straight in your opponents face and hurt him really hard that he will not forget it. Even better if he doesn't realize it until it's too late.

When it comes to the 2020 Galwin thing between China and India, only India was loudmouthed and kept using a 2.5x KD ratio whenever their own casualties went up. China said nothing so you think they were ashamed. But they just waited until India kept talking themselves into a corner then released full HD footage of Indian soldiers captured in masses. The Indians who up to now spent so much time talking suddenly wished they didn't buy it was too late. And now people are realizing India actually lost territory as more things come out and they really want to forget they ever spoke about it. But they can't.

You make them sink low enough in your trap and then go for their jugular with no mercy.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Chinese exports are only competitive because of cheap labor, duh.

 

[Randomuser]

View attachment 130537

Chinese exports are only competitive because of cheap labor, duh.

I mean it still is relatively cheap. It's just you won't get anywhere else that is cheap and still satisfactory quality.

People can keep saying that "made in China" crap until they start trying a "made in a real third world country" equivalent product. Then only will they realize how good they have it.

 

[coolgod]

Then how come those "better innovative" Chinese companies have not made it outside China? Lool nobody knows or even heard about them apart from some Chinese in China. Lol How are they better than Lenovo then?
If they are better they should be able to outsell and outcompete lenovo in China itself yet ecen in China Lenovo is number 1 in their segment/industry much less the world. To be honest, most Chinese companies find it hard to be a global company or a multinational one (even those who are successful in China), seems they often lack that global appetite and appeal compared to American companies who constantly dominate in the US and the world. In fact most American companies startup with the global market in mind, Few Chinese companies have that mindset , most are limited in their thinking and mindset only in China/locally(not blaming them though just making an observation). Explains why very few breakout and are successful. Even tencent who is huge in China has barely any brand presence outside China. Lol
So still have to give it to Lenovo for being only a couple of Chinese companies who have made it not just locally but globally as well. The others are sleeping or something. Lol

Indian mindset leaking through again. A company that heavily relies on western technology is not a good Chinese company, just like a company with an Indian CEO doesn't make it an Indian company. Indians love to brag about how noticeable multinational companies all have Indian CEOs as if they somehow really holds power over the corporation. This is why these Indians are selected to be CEOs, only vain Indians are dumb enough to fall for this crap.

Chinese people actually care about who holds power over corporations, that's why the CPC is in power and promotes domestic innovation.

 

[MortyandRick]

To be honest, most Chinese companies find it hard to be a global company or a multinational one (even those who are successful in China), seems they often lack that global appetite and appeal compared to American companies who constantly dominate in the US and the world. In fact most American companies startup with the global market in mind, Few Chinese companies have that mindset ,

Bold statement. It's not mindset or appetite. It's US reserve currency and developed financial markets. US has massive head start ahead of most counties in the world. China has only started to break out in the last 5-8 years.

Can you name the number of US startups in the last 5 years that have gone truly global where they are household names? Btw global does not mean just in the west.

 

[Maikeru]

Caixin PMI 51.7 in May, up from 51.4 in April.

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Business conditions in the Chinese manufacturing sector improved at a
more pronounced rate midway into the second quarter of 2024. Production
growth accelerated amid rising new orders. This led to faster accumulation of
backlogged work, while purchasing activity also rose. Firms were hesitant to hire
additional workers, however, even as sentiment about the outlook improved.

 

[azn_cyniq]

Indian mindset leaking through again. A company that heavily relies on western technology is not a good Chinese company, just like a company with an Indian CEO doesn't make it an Indian company. Indians love to brag about how noticeable multinational companies all have Indian CEOs as if they somehow really holds power over the corporation. This is why these Indians are selected to be CEOs, only vain Indians are dumb enough to fall for this crap.

Chinese people actually care about who holds power over corporations, that's why the CPC is in power and promotes domestic innovation.

If Lenovo didn't exist, then Western companies would be making an additional $57 billion a year. That is not a desirable outcome for China. Lenovo relies on Western technology, but at least it is generating enough income to give itself a fighting chance of becoming independent.

 

[Randomuser]

I currently use a Lenovo Thinkapd so it can't be that bad.

Problem is ThinkPads won't last forever. Especially as we are moving onto new technologies. Therefore Lenovo will need to find something new or it will stagnate the same way many western IT companies have.

 

[azn_cyniq]

To be honest, most Chinese companies find it hard to be a global company or a multinational one (even those who are successful in China)

I am not saying that Chinese companies are the best in the world, but in recent years, many Chinese companies have indeed succeeded outside of China. Huawei, Oppo, Vivo, Xiaomi, BYD, DJI, TCL, Hisense, Temu, Shein, Lenovo, and TikTok are some examples. China still has a long way to go, but as far as I can tell, the only countries that have more successful multinational brands than China are the USA, Germany, and Japan.