And use a Tanya Harding tactics to stay ahead.
Chinese Economics Thread
- Thread starter Norfolk
- Start date
It's not a large portion. It's a handful of strategic sectors that will all fall within a decade.
A
azn_cyniq
Guest
The USA's semiconductor and aircraft engine industries are ahead of China's. Therefore US export controls targeting China's semiconductor and aircraft engine industries affect China. These are exceptions, and most of us here are fully aware of them.
That's not true, basically, it is mostly through IPO that companies themselves, aka. "real economy" get the capital through equity financing.
This year China had much better IPO results than the US, and that's in the USD:
Whereas everything that happens after that, collective 401k channeling into the stock market makes existing shareholders richer and richer.
Secondary dilutive offerings of new shares are very rare because they lower the holdings value of the holders of already existing shares.
Whereas, in China, for example, companies and the real economy get much better value from peoples' investments in state bank savings accounts lent as strategic loans.
Even though here also the real economy doesn't get everything due to banking risk management regulation, the real economy probably gets way more.
I'm not talking about how they raise the real wages over time if invested in emerging high-value-added industries, but also how they have managed to build housing and social infrastructure at a record pace until now.
I think that China's approach is way superior if you want to run a country but not some oligarch, pirate-based, rent-seeking cabal like the US is.
Who cares about who talks about what, my friend? You take retarded ordered Orwellian CIA media articles like something of some value, wtf?
Largest by what? The US companies certainly have the largest market caps in nearly any industry on the planet due to world-class financial engineering in the US, money printing, decades of low-interest rates, different policies regarding investing in equity markets, way more share buybacks, way friendlier policy toward oligarchs and major shareholders, etc. Btw, CPU and GPU in the US are mostly about design, if you wanna talk about manufacturing, it is TSMC that mostly manufactures stuff.
Yes, China has an "absolute advantage" in manufacturing, as it was shown to you already a few days ago in this study and many others:
Last edited:
Capital markets are part of the financial sector. Asset managers, investment banks, and stock exchanges are all part of the financial sector: companies enlist the help of investment banks to sell to asset managers their equity. All of
No. Secondary offerings are quite common. The book value of equity doesn’t change in a secondary offering since the cash from equity sales goes straight to the assets side of the balance sheet and net equity increases equally. The market value of equity turns on how efficient the capital projects are.
The financial authorities in China have vowed to expand the depth and breadth of equity exchanges (and have done so) for many years
Debt and equity fund completely different parts of the capital structure. You generally need both.
This site has mentioned Gina Raimondo many many many many many times.
Revenues, profits, market shares, global reach
Your citation doesn’t refute my point since I said China had the scale advantage. Regardless: biotech/pharmaceuticals, scientific devices, medical devices, electronic components (incl. semiconductors), aircraft and aircraft components (incl. engines) are a substantial portion of global manufacturing value added and in those sectors (for now), it remains quite US favorable. This is ofc, even avoiding software publishers who are also industrially relevant but aren’t manufacturers
one major point. most of the people usually ignore or they don't know.
USA is the biggest net importer of capital goods excluding aircrafts.. this percentage is on rapid rise.
USA Tech sanctions only works effectively when entire West , Japan , Taiwan and Korea is on board..
USA is itself heavily dependent on allies for critical components , parts , materials and tools. you talk about Engines/semiconductor being the strongest zone of US. its true but when you jump into depth you will find strange information. for example USA don't have Lithography industry. lets suppose, ASML or NIKON block the sales of Lithography Machine to Intel. what will they do ? nothing they can do
General Electrics and Pratt and Whitney are the top two largest turbofan engine manufacturer in the world. now guess what, their most advanced machines heavily depend on components from Allies. MTU Germany is the backbone of all GE engines. World's most advance F-135 military engine components and parts comes from 12 different countries ..
but USA has some world beater Non-Litho semiconductor equipment companies like KLA/LAM. include EDA providers. this is where USA is the best.
in one vs one situation China can knock off USA easily. i can bet on that... just USA vs China .. no support from allies.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
now back to original question.. as @ZeEa5KPul mentioned, USA/West has lead over China coz of century old foundation in Turbofan engine and 4 Decades lead in semiconductor..
but look at now what China has achieved in these two fields.
successfully developed complete ecosystem of Advanced gas turbine industry. WS-15 is one the most advanced military turbofan engine in the world right now..
completed the domestic line of mature semiconductor include complete set of tools. rapidly advancing towards cutting edge..
In next few years, what do you think will happen when all the levers (EVs, Semiconductor ecosystem, COMAC, largest percentage of global patents, etc.) come into play for China.
China will decisively annihilate all western world high tech industries..
Last edited:
Ok, and the sky is blue, so what? What does that have anything to do with what I wrote? It is not the first time you attempt to bullshit out of an argument like this. I advise admins to start looking into this trolling.
Secondary dilutive offerings, in which companies actually get any new capital to use after IPO are not common in the US.
Secondary offering in which a company issues new shares, but then repays back existing shareholders so they retain the same value is common, however.
They do that in order to lower the price of a single share, so they can attract more retail investors / make existing SHs richer.
Yeah, and they have the second most advanced equity market in the world which reflects the size of their economy perfectly and isn't bloated like in some other country.
Yes, you need both, that's why China has the strongest IPO markets in 2023 by far. You don't need a parasitic rent-seeking oligarch cabal Ponzi scheme stock market machine running, however.
No, China has both the scale and value-added. The US is relying way more on their inputs, than the other way about (around 3 times more as shown in that link).
The US is miles behind China in semiconductors production my friend, they are mostly involved in the design segment which is the easiest one to break into. Again, this was already shown to you a few days ago.
If the US is so good at some advanced secret 4D chess manufacturing and semiconductors, then why so many delays in the TSMC Arizona fab, due to a shortage of skilled workers and everything else?
I asked you; "Why do you think Chinese people went to live in the West". It was rhetorical question. I can answer it for you. The reason why people left China is because China was and to large extent is - "a shithole country" to express myself as Donald Trump. Even today, people are leaving China for better opportunities abroad. Although China´s economy growing and China has taken enormous steps regarding technology - China is not around the corner yet.
They are not operational yet. It will take 15-20 years before China has mature high-bypass engines. Of course this is not my field. What is true is that China has made extra-ordinary progress in terms of aviation.
Yeah, I never disputed that it’s companies themselves that get financing. That’s why I said the financial sector intermediates
All secondary offerings are necessarily dilutive; otherwise it’s just a no-op. There are many companies with an increase in shares outstanding at the same time others are buying back shares.
Now you’re just saying words. What about the SSE’s structure is different from the NYSE?
I mean, the U.S. produces more at leading nodes than China but noting about the I/O tables is contradictory. The U.S. imports substantial volume from China, with each import unit having less value add. And of course, semiconductors were only one thing I listed.
Idk what your "point" is here. You just write something to write something, to troll more, and appear you were always "right".
No this is a mega fail, there are dilutive and non-dilutive secondary offerings.
In one companies doesn't compensate existing shareholders, and in one it does.
So, the company raises new money, but it then pays it to existing shareholders,
So they don't lose any voting power/value of shares.
That's quite common in the US if a company wants to lower its share place,
To be more accessible to retail investors.
Dilutive secondary offerings when the company gets new money after an IPO is very rare,
Certainly very rare that Chinese state banks loan their real economy.
That's why I say that the Chinese approach is way superior to the real economy.
I literally told you the difference in the past answer.
It's not about the stock market exchange, but the government's general policy and fiscal, and monetary policy toward equity markets.
Also financialization of the overall economy, is what's different. Also, society is different.
I can't understand you at all, are you using some kind of AI or a translator to generate your answers? This is impossible to have a conversation.