Chinese Economics Thread

Serb

Junior Member
Registered Member
In the first place you cannot compare gdp in 2 different currencies without accounting for inflation.

Why is it surprising India has a large economy? They have the largest population in the world. Just by eating, shitting and drinking, they generate a lot of market share.

Through we can certainly discuss if gdp is a good measure at all.

After all, the Qing empire had a larger gdp than the British empire up to during the 2nd opium war. At that time, the British had over 4 times the productivity in steel, had far more efficient infrastructure and could produce goods at much better rates.

Imo what provides a more accurate picture of economic size is a combined comparison of: Basic resource production (i.e. steel) + energy output + advance goods production (for example, cars, electronics).

But even in these metrics, there is a clear gap between China and US. There is basically no metric one can use that wouldn't land China on the no1 spot. Well, unless you start measuring "economy size" through number of incarcerated and executions...

China is the 'world's factory', where local people can buy everything of domestic origin in yuan (apart from some non-essential luxury type goods only), not from abroad in dollars, so they don't lose anything on the 'bad' (intentionally made by them) exchange rate of dollar/yuan rate. And they buy things 10 times cheaper than Westerners in terms of prices, from the start, due to the far more advanced industry.

Not to mention how nominal GDP simply doesn't do anything to factor for simple yearly inflation (rising in prices doesn't equal more productivity). Even GDP PPP is a silly indicator for China because Western GDP PPP is mostly made up of irrelevant services, GDP PPP for countries of the Global South is mostly made up of raw material exports, while Chinese PPP is made up of heavy industry on which the whole world depends, which is the most valuable in the world. So, the structure is very important, and China's GDP structure only promises more innovation and growth.

China may have a GDP per capita 10 times smaller than Spain's, but as they are world leaders in industrial production, they can buy air conditioners, refrigerators, stoves, and other household appliances 10 times cheaper than in Spain (hypothetical ratios). A country with the most 5G internet and high-speed trains in the world can hardly be compared with India and other Global South countries in terms of individual living standards.

The Chinese economy uses half of the world's steel and other industrial materials annually (cement, aluminum), and on top of that, as the world's largest producer of these materials, it shows what an industrial power they are and the real strength of their economy (industry) much better than just GDP which includes all sorts of irrelevant services from the West and exports of ores and agricultural products on which the Global South lives.

China produces 60% of the world's household appliances annually, as well as the majority of cars, phones, TVs, furniture, etc. So, it doesn't matter what their GDP per capita is when their citizens benefit from a domestically developed industry to get all these things at 10 times lower value than in the West or the Global South.

China today has more middle class than the USA and almost more than the entire EU. In terms of total median wealth, they are above the European average (without even considering the income/expenditure ratio).

And all this with 40% of the population still in rural areas and with poorer education. Imagine in the future when they also urbanize and specialize further. Even though their middle class has a lower nominal GDP per capita in dollars, it's absolutely unimportant when they don't buy anything from the West to change the exchange rate, and their domestic industry is 10 times more developed, so they get things 10 times cheaper due to "economics of scale".

The Chinese are now the biggest buyers of iPhone and Tesla in the world, buying more than Americans, even though these brands are not even the first choice for the Chinese population. Look at how many calories the Chinese consume annually, and how much meat they consume annually, more than most Western countries. Life expectancy is also higher than in the US, better literacy rate, etc.

I forgot to add how in China residents have free education, healthcare, transportation, and free accommodation if needed for the homeless (none of this exists in the West, especially not in America). And how their state-owned companies do the extraction and processing of energy resources, not their private companies, so they also have much cheaper bills for electricity, heating, and water...

Not to mention that they import cheap energy resources from Iran and Russia (unlike the brain-dead EU), and do not have a green agenda, like all zombies from the West which further raises the overall inflation level of an economy. All this contributes to their expenses being so much lower compared to the West, making their standard better. Their expenses are far lower than in the West than their incomes are lower than there, so the ratio (the real standard of living) is distorted if you don't look at it like that. Great answer btw, steel and energy are truly everything.
 
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Deleted member 24525

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What do they expect him to say. Keep on investing in China. Government will maintain a stable business environment. A healthy US- China relationship is healthy for the world. There, I just saved you $40,000.
Central government internal deliberations and decision making are often extremely opaque, and getting even a bit of insight on it is well worth the 40k for a big corporation.
 

henrik

Senior Member
Registered Member
Aside from nuclear weapons/energy and aerospace, Russia has no meaningful independent technological capabilities to speak of, and is dependent on fossil fuel extraction for its national income. Germany is an absolute powerhouse in basically everything mechanical, from CNCs to vehicles to high performance bearings and heavy duty gas turbines, also optics and metallurgy.

China can do all of these technology just as good or better and Germany is now being displaced.
 

supercat

Major
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With China facing deflation and rapid deleveraging, their money supply should be going down. This is the time to do big monetary expansion aka money printing press. But China is being very cautious to do monetary and fiscal stimulus at the moment. That 1 trillion yuan stimulus is nothing compared to China's total GDP which was 121 trillion yuan last year.

With a global recession ongoing and a big recession coming in the US and Europe, Beijing might be keeping its ammunition in reserve if a big crash happens similar to 2008. That will really cause big drops in exports compared to even now.
Yes, with "deflation", China's policymakers have a huge leeway to do stimulation if they choose to do so, unlike the economies of the US and EU, which are plagued with high inflation.

I think it means starting salaries for those with master degrees.
JW Insights: Chinese IC graduates expect average annual salary of $42,290 in 2024
(JW Insights) Nov 9 -- The expected annual salary for the Chinese IC graduates with master degree in 2024 reaches RMB308,100 ($42,290), according to JW Insights’ Analysis Report on Employment Competitiveness of 2024 Graduates in China's Integrated Circuit Industry released on November 6.
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LST

New Member
Registered Member
If China had chosen to not burst the property bubble and instead went with the old ways to find ways of fueling its real estate, this year GDP's growth would probably be around 8%...

That tells you all you need to know about the importance of the headline GDP number. Its infinitely better to burst the bubble and direct the credit to more productive sectors even if that "lowers" your GDP
This probably depicts what you are saying...
 

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Biscuits

Major
Registered Member
China can do all of these technology just as good or better and Germany is now being displaced.
China also has 32 trillion in gdp to Germany's 5.

I think Russia is a way more fair comparison. If we generalize, Germany has better living standard, slightly better civilian technology, much worse military technology and less resource access.
 

SanWenYu

Captain
Registered Member
I literally never said this.
I said "you claim". And that's your line of reasoning. These are your own words: "Their high nominal GDP reflects their technological advantage."

That being said it is true.
Care to list the manufacturing goods from Australia? We all know what Russians can make.

You think Russian economy as too dependent on natural resource extraction. Isn't the Australian one exactly the same kind?

According to the
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, their top 5 sectors by output are:

Mining14.3%
Healthcare and education12.8%
Finance7.4%
Construction7.1%
Manufacturing5.7%
 
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Deleted member 24525

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I said "you claim". And that's your line of reasoning. These are your own words: "Their high nominal GDP reflects their technological advantage."


Care to list the manufacturing goods from Australia? We all know what Russians can make.

You think Russian economy as too dependent on natural resource extraction. Isn't the Australian one exactly the same kind?

According to the
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
, their top 5 sectors by output are:

Mining14.3%
Healthcare and education12.8%
Finance7.4%
Construction7.1%
Manufacturing5.7%
The onus is on you to explain why, if per capita GDP is not principally a function of technology, Russia has a per capita GDP 20% that of Australia despite being the second most resource rich country in the world after the US.

If Australia's wealth is overwhelmingly because of resource extraction then surely Russia, with its far greater resources, should be just as rich? Why the discrepancy?
 

SanWenYu

Captain
Registered Member
The onus is on you to explain why, if per capita GDP is not principally a function of technology, Russia has a per capita GDP 20% that of Australia despite being the second most resource rich country in the world after the US.

If Australia's wealth is overwhelmingly because of resource extraction then surely Russia, with its far greater resources, should be just as rich? Why the discrepancy?
If you don't know that the burden of proof is on you to support your own claim, there is no point for me to continue the debate.
 
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