They need to maintain the population, so that industrial production can be further ramped up, for displacing the competition from other countries. The current unemployment can be solved by pumping more money in to the service sector, like food and beverage industries. More people will get jobs, if everybody starts spending more.
Chinese Economics Thread
- Thread starter Norfolk
- Start date
They need to maintain the population, so that industrial production can be further ramped up, for displacing the competition from other countries. The current unemployment can be solved by pumping more money in to the service sector, like food and beverage industries. More people will get jobs, if everybody starts spending more.
I'd like you to explain why old people spending money (or the state spending money on their behalf) = bad, while young people spending money = good. Demand is demand, right?
If the service sector was "destroyed" by lockdowns, why hasn't it recovered now that lockdowns are over? Maybe the lockdowns gave people a chance to reflect and they've decided they don't really need or even like what the service sector was providing. The service sector will have to do better.
I'd like the government to be a much bigger source of demand than it is today. 1.4% of GDP on defense is far too low, double that and that's an enormous amount of demand. Funding social programs is also more demand.
I cannot for the life of me understand people who think demand is the motive force of an economy. Demand is secondary, what is primary is productive capacity and supply. I'm sure Somalis would love to consume a lot more goods and services than they currently do, why isn't their "demand" being met?
Africa is a continent so we can't compare with Japan/Korea.
both Japan/Korea have massive trade deficit with China.
Old people don’t produce and are typically on some sort of welfare (pension, state medical insurance, etc.) Welfare is demand, but not the type that makes an economy competitive, since its purpose is to maintain a none productive sector of the economy. It’s the same reason printing money & giving it to people to spend however they want causes inflation and doesn’t actually strengthen the economy - Biden learned that the hard way.
Economic systems have a single purpose and that is to motivate high quality productivity from working age people. If you have no working age people, no economic system can save you. Robots unless completely autonomous (in which case they displace humans) still need to be operated and motivated by people. If all those people are old you’re not going to get much high quality productivity.
Same reason why 70 year olds don’t found world beating companies despite having more wealth & so in theory better economic position to become entrepreneurs.
Last edited:
China's problem is lack of demand so money printing helps with that, whether that takes the form of rising wages or through increased welfare. US problem is lack of productive capability so when too much money is injected into the system there's inflation.
I would argue with some adjustments to our economic system/incentives, plenty of professional level retirement age people with desk jobs could keep working on a reduced basis and contributing their expertise while enjoying the fruits of the life they have built but capitalism for the most part is to built to squeeze workers like lemons and discard them. Also, I wouldn't say that money spent on the elderly is wasteful just because they are not productive, we as individuals and society's choose to spend money on things that better our quality or life or overall welfare. Obviously there is a limited pool of resources, and we have to make choices as to what goes into productive investments vs QoL/welfare but certain welfare spending like say Healthcare has effects on people's wellbeing that go beyond a bottom line, and can even affect the bottom line. There are limits to what we can spend, and we need to make decisions based on the outcomes and overall society goals but to draw that we should only spend on productive people and not on the elderly in a peacetime society is going down some dark paths. We are not in some kind of existential crisis where we need to effectively ration resources.
D
Deleted member 23272
Guest
I'll make it simple. You know the English saying, "Reputation takes years to build and seconds to destroy?" Business and entrepeneurial sentiment for a developing country transitioning from cheap manufactering into tech and services is the same ballpark. Took years of prudent leadership for the party to build that amidst Western sanctions. Then, nevermind a second, but for a whole year they destroyed that sentiment with lockdowns and crackdowns.
Lockdowns ending doesn't fix the problem for people who already had their businesses foreclosed anyways due to being forced to shutdown when COVID cases rose. The tech crackdown ending isn't going to allay fears for people who want to start a blockbuster company, but now have the knowledge that if they or anyone of their management rubs the party the wrong way they'll have their business kneecapped.
Luckily while destroyed reputations are sometimes insalvageable, business sentiment can be rebuilt. And that's the heavy lifting the party's going to have to do for the next five years if they still want China to be able to compete with the West, that's the brutal truth.
What you said of old people spending is not entirely true. Tasmania, a little state in Australia, has the highest proportion retired people. Older people from the mainland come here to retire, due to the clean ,safe, easy and relax life style. There are lots of natural marine reserves and national parks. Good fishing all around the island. Some live on pensions and many on superannuations ( compulsory government supported life saving schemes during their working life). As a result, real estate is still booming compared to other states, elderly care business are booming such as carers , private and public medical services and facilities. Travelling, camping, car rentals and hospitality are progressing along. Pharmacy, airbnb, and Supermarkets are making a killing. Tasmanian has the highest boat ownership per percentage of population, a lot owned by the elderly especially small recreational boats. Many, even though retired, still own one or more rental properties and other investments. The state has one of the most stable and sustainable economy within Australia even though Tasmania has very little manufacturing or mining industries. Tasmanian do have some fish farms and export agriculture products
All these older and retired people, rich and poor ,do make positive contributions to the economy.
Of course there are also downsides. This state will not be conductive to the young and the ambitious due to limited choices/prospects and relatively sparse population. Most young people will migrate to mainland Australia for better career opportunities and for a more hectic lifestyle . Many overseas migrants choose Tasmania (relatively easier visa conditions )as the stepping stone for the length of their compusary stay before dispersing into the mainland. Win some, lose some.
Last edited:
antiterror13
Brigadier
Both Japan and Korea are so worried as in the past they enjoyed big trade surplus with China
Well, with all the sanctions .. it will get worse