Chinese Economics Thread

kroko

Senior Member
Official figures don't mesh with reality. Most Chinese that buy cars buy the foreign brand. Those cars are comparable in price to those in the US. I think I read recently that per capita income is now close to $5000 USD. China held the title of largest car market in the world. How can those people afford to buy a car.

keep in mind that almost all of the cars sold in china are manufactured in china by joint-ventures betwen foreign and chinese companies. They have very low prices compared to cars manufactured abroad. Beijing, shangai, (and it think that gangzou and chongquing too) have so many cars that those cities imposed limits on car ownership !
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Chinese buy the foreign brand regardless if they're actually made in China yet the prices for those cars are comparable to those in the US. US auto manufacturers have noted this in stating they make more money from a car made and sold in China than one in the US. Why? Because they don't have to pay into all the benefits that workers in the US get.
 

Player 0

Junior Member
Solving the China puzzle
Robert Gottliebsen
Published 7:16 AM, 17 Aug 2012

inShare


Australia needs to prepare for the new China.

That means selling goods and services to Chinese consumers, who will become the largest middle class in the world.

That was the message Cheng Siwei, chairman of the China backed International Finance Forum, delivered to Australia via his Kailis Oration at the ADC Hayman Leadership retreat and in his video interview with Business Spectator.

Not only is China is about to have a new leader, Xi Jinping, but it is embarking on a new strategy to lift consumer prosperity. Cheng says that only by increasing productivity can China deliver increased prosperity for its people.

It's a message that applies as much to Australia as it does to China. According to Cheng this new approach will dominate China for the rest of the decade and beyond.

At Hayman, the Chinese delegates were very frank in stating that the stimulation that government engineered in the aftermath of the global financial crisis left them with a housing bubble.

Last year the Chinese moved on a number of fronts to slow the economy and limit the damage caused by the bubble. Unfortunately, the slowdown went a little harder than expected and as a result they are now stimulating the economy to bring growth rates back to around the 8 to 9 per cent mark.

In the past, China has achieved high growth rates mostly by capital works and much of that investment has not been an efficient allocation of money. For example, the steel industry has spent vast sums increasing its capacity to a level that is 20 per cent more than is required. In other words 200,000 tonnes of steel making capacity is simply not being used.

And there are other examples around the country of capital waste as part of the desperate attempt to avoid the consequences of the sharp fall in exports that came with the global financial crisis.

The Chinese now aim to achieve their growth via a much higher proportion of consumer demand. But convincing Chinese consumers to spend will require some form of social safety net so that people are not wiped out by medical expenses and other sudden changes to income. China will need higher revenues from taxation to fund this outlay.

In his video interview, Cheng explained how the Chinese hope to do this in the coming decade. It will not be a short-term fix.

The most important measures that Cheng suggests is that Chinese wages should be linked first to growth in the Chinese economy and second to increases in their productivity. In that way extra rewards can be delivered to employees without boosting inflation and creating another bubble.

The concept that Chinese wages should be linked to the growth in their economy and to productivity is one that many nations, including Australia, would like to emulate.

Australia has used the carbon tax and other measures redistribute wealth to lower income people but that does not lift overall prosperity. Australia has not linked productivity to wage increases, although the Fair Work Act does raise this as a goal.

If the Chinese can achieve such a link it would create a massive middle class and prosperity without inflation. The Chinese middle class would be the largest in the world.

The Chinese delegates at Hayman emphasised that Australia is still going to sell vast amounts of minerals to China but the amount required in a consumer society will be less than when you are achieving most of your growth via investment.

And there will be no need for iron ore to erect new steel plants for a long time. Australia’s challenge will be to try and maintain market share in a minerals market that grows less than it did in previous years but has the benefit of big increases in supply from Russia, US, Africa, Brazil and other places.

The easy minerals pickings in China are over.

The new game is adapting to the new China growth plan.


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Does anyone have any clue on how far China's come in developing a consumer market or how Chinese savings rates are doing now?

Its hard to get accurate information and the books I've read so far are still at least three years out of date.
 

Player 0

Junior Member
Urbanisation in China

Industrialisation and urbanisation have fuelled China's rapid economic growth over the last three decades.TITUS MBUYA reviews the urbanisation strategy of China and how it has impacted on its population


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China's urban population surpassed that of rural areas in 2011 for the first time in the country's history after three decades of economic development which encourages farmers to seek better living standards in towns and cities.
Urbanisation has become synonymous with China's modernisation. Urbanisation is the physical growth of urban areas as a result of rural migration and even suburban concentration into cities, particularly the very large ones.
Rural-urban migration describes the population movements from the countryside to towns and cities that usually accompany economic expansion. One of the consequences of the integration of the Chinese economy into the world market is the transition from agrarian society to one based increasingly on industrial production, a phenomenon that has fuelled rural-urban migration in China. China's urbanisation is unprecedented in terms of scope, scale, influence and the number of people involved. American Nobel Laureate in economics Joseph Stiglitz has said that one of the two most important things that will impact human history in the 21st century will be the urbanisation process in China.
China surpassed the United States in the mid-1970s to become the nation with the largest number of urban dwellers in the world. Ironically, this happened at the end of a period in which China's public policy was intensely anti-urban. Much has changed since then. China's "opening up", and the introduction of market oriented reforms in the early 1980s, accelerated urbanisation across China, such that, today, 600 million urban Chinese constitute 44 percent of the country's population.
China launched its urbanisation programme at the beginning of its reform and opening-up policy in 1978 in a bid to accommodate rural labour and achieve development in rural areas. After the reforms in 1978, rural productivity was greatly increased, resulting in a large number of surplus rural labourers. The government proposed the strategic policy of transferring rural labour into non-agricultural sectors. From then on, the surplus labourers began to move into towns and cities.
In the last three decades, China has experienced the largest rural-to-urban migration the world has ever seen.
Worldwide it took the United Kingdom 120 years, France 100 years, the US 40 years and Japan 30 years to achieve 40 percent urbanisation, while China needed only 22 years to achieve the same level by 2003.
China's population urbanisation rate, which reached 51 percent in 2011, will further climb to near 60 percent in 2020 bringing the country's urban population to around 850 million, according to the China Population and Development Research Centre. China reached a historic point in 2011, as the number of people living in the nation's urban areas passed the number living in rural ones.
The country's urbanisation rate will hit 52 percent in 2015 and grow to 65 percent by 2030, the annual report on urban development by the Chinese Academy of Social sciences (CASS - a top Chinese think tank), shows. The urbanisation rate during the country's 12th Five Year Plan (2011-2015) will grow by 0.8 to 1.0 percent each year.
That means more than 10 million rural residents will move to cities and towns annually - a process that is expected to contribute 4 percentage points to the country's GDP growth each year. The latest McKinsey & Company study shows that about 1 billion people will be living in the country's urban areas by 2025, and more than 200 cities will have a population of 1 million or more. The firm also predicts that about 90 percent of China's GDP will eventually come from the country's urban economy.
China is now at the stage of industrialisation and urbanisation, with each promoting development of the other.According to the country's development road map, industrialisation will be basically achieved by 2020. By that time, the urbanisation ratio would rise to 60 percent. Such a high level is expected to a big boost to much-needed consumption and promote sustainable economic development.
There have been two main drivers of urbanisation in China. There is rural-urban migration. But contrary to popular impressions of a massive wave of migrants to coastal cities from poor central and western provinces, the major driver of urbanisation in China has been in situ suburbanisation of formerly farming populations into urban economies.
The impression that many have of a China of megacities teeming with people is not accurate. A large share of China's urban population is located in small and medium size cities.The assumption is that a rural-urban shift will transform poor farmers into industrial and office workers, raising their incomes and creating a massive consumer class. In other words urbanisation will create jobs for rural folks. Secondly, it will create a big market for rural areas, as farming products can be sold in towns and cities. More jobs and bigger markets mean increasing income for farmers. This will in turn ignite rural consumption and eventually promote overall economic growth.
The major threat of development under rapid urbanisation and economic growth in China is increasing socio-economic inequalities, especially between rural and urban areas. Due to a long-standing dual economic structure, economic development in rural areas has lagged far behind urban areas. Incomes in China's cities are three to four times higher than in the countryside. The current 12th Five Year Plan wants to stop the deterioration.
Since 1997, farmers' income has stayed at a low level, with the income gap compared to their urban counterparts continuously widening. In 2008 the annual net per capita income of farmers accounted for only 4,761 yuan ($679), equivalent to urban residents' income level in 1996. In 2009, the disposable income of the urban population stood at 17,175 yuan ($2,453) per capita, but the net income of the rural population was 5,153 yuan per person.
In China, urbanization is seen by policy makers and planners as a formal strategy to closing the rural-urban gap.
According to the 12th Five Year Plans, specific interventions to improve the standard of living in rural areas are expected to focus explicitly on increasing rural urbanisation, agricultural modernization and intensification. The goal of urbanisation is to create jobs and improving people's standard of living through economic development.
At one level the urbanisation strategy seems to be working very well for the country. Construction of skyscrapers and high rise buildings, wider streets and huge squares have changed the look of almost all Chinese cities.
In terms of industry, the migration of surplus rural labourers to towns and cities provides local industry with an abundant cheap labour force. Millions of jobs are being created every year across all sectors of the economy.
Accelerated urbanisation enables the country to invest more in infrastructure construction, which will drive domestic demand and economic structural adjustment. At the same time, rising urbanisation means that the government will be able to offer well-developed education, medical care and housing networks for more people, a move that is also expected to help people to be more willing to spend.
As for agriculture, those who have moved to the city contracted their land to those who stayed in rural areas. With the scattered land put together and the introduction of intensive farming, the land productivity is raised.Nationwide, per capita rural incomes after inflation rose 14.3 percent in the first quarter (2011) from a year earlier, double the increase in urban disposable income, thanks to higher farm prices and bigger remittances by migrant workers. So, China's vast rural economy, home to over 700 million people, seems to be doing well. But urban China is doing much better, and the resulting inequality continues to be a nagging concern for the ruling communist Party.
However, concerns have been raised about the unfolding urbanisation that is engulfing China. In most cases, the rural urbanisation process is accompanied by land dispossession and forced migrations of the population from rural areas to new cities or towns. Some town municipalities are acquiring farmland by force from farmers, with little compensation, and selling this land to real estate developers as this provides an important source of revenue for local governments. Some local governments are financially dependent on land sales and use all sorts of methods to turn farmland into construction land. Statistics show that between 2006 and 2010 an average of 440,000 acres of land was transferred every year. Some argue that industrialisation since China's reform and opening up has meant exploitation of farmers.
The exploitative process involves multiple participants including state-owned capital, private capital and foreign capital. Huge numbers of migrant workers have been sucked into the process of industrialisation, which should in theory mean progress. But the degree of exploitation to which they have been subjected is extreme. What enterprises depend on for survival and development is the unlimited supply of migrant workers. In the meantime, the migration of rural workers to urban areas is draining rural areas of their valuable human resources.
There is also the problem of unemployment in respect of the rural migrants as more and more farmers are being deprived of their land with neither jobs nor effective social security to cover their loss. Excessive supply of labour has left big cities staring at the ghosts of unemployment and expensive housing which cannot be afforded by farmers.
One Chinese scholar warned that radical urbanisation might harm farmers' welfare and create "urban slums". He says if the country's urbanisation moves too fast, the cities might not be ready to provide proper public service for newcomers, who have lost their farmlands at hometown.
Urbanisation will continue at an unprecedented scale and speed in China. The country has adopted it as the way to further modernise itself and improve the livelihood of its citizens. Urbanisation will hopefully help the country convert its enormous consumption potential into a strong propulsive force for sustainable economic development.Cities are major areas of consumption. And urbanisation is key to consumption.
As China looks inward for growth, the 12th Five Year Plan emphasises the importance of shifting to consumption-driven growth for several hoped for outcomes; reducing income disparity, moving away from foreign asset investment because of overcapacity concerns, as well as reducing China's dependency on exports and thus reducing its current account surplus and need to maintain an artificially weak currency. In order to enable consumption to grow quickly, the government plans to increase social safety nets, such as health care and social welfare payments.
Over the long term, the health and vitality of China's rapidly growing urban areas will be central to continued growth. Cities are strong engines of growth. They permit economies of scale and scope in production and distribution, and facilitate technology spillovers. And because of higher population densities in cities, private and public investments are more cost effective and yield higher returns.

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Maggern

Junior Member
For everyone's viewing pleasure, here is a map showing GDP per person for 2010 in China. Data are in 10 000RMB. Please take this rather as an illustration on distribution of wealth rather than critical numbers on each county. Data is show on prefecture-level for almost all provinces except Xizang (Tibet AR), Xinjiang and Nei Mongol (Inner Mongolia), who have their data on county-level (simply because prefecture-level divisions are so large..).

kJ6nn.gif


PS: Of course, this is my own work, based on my own web research, and not something pulled off any official website. The data credibility must thus be taken into account.
 
Last edited:

Equation

Lieutenant General
For everyone's viewing pleasure, here is a map showing GDP per person for 2010 in China. Data are in 10 000RMB. Please take this rather as an illustration on distribution of wealth rather than critical numbers on each county. Data is show on prefecture-level for almost all provinces except Xizang (Tibet AR), Xinjiang and Nei Mongol (Inner Mongolia), who have their data on county-level (simply because prefecture-level divisions are so large..).

kJ6nn.gif


PS: Of course, this is my own work, based on my own web research, and not something pulled off any official website. The data credibility must thus be taken into account.


Looks like the highest GDP improvements are in the Inner Mongolia, Xinjiang and Gansu provences. That's no surprise considered the folks over their are mostly farmers and animal herders.
 

Maggern

Junior Member
What is easy to forget is that the richest people in China are not along the coast, but are mostly in pretty much non-inhabited areas that happen to sit on a ton of rare earth minerals. The fact that noone live in these areas are the reason the average GDP for China whole remain in the lower part of the spectrum.
 

Player 0

Junior Member
Looks like Australia is starting to feel the pressure as China's economy rebalances itself, anyone want to comment on this.

Well I already know that the steel sector is reforming itself as over a 1000 firms are being restructure into 10 megafirms. The crash of this bubble could mean good things like housing prices going down and people being able to afford more stuff. Australia will however have to wait until India starts some serious growth before it can recover with the current strategy.

Australian Broadcasting Corporation
Broadcast: 22/08/2012
Reporter: Stephen Long
Is BHP Billiton's announcement of a 35 per cent fall in earnings further evidence of the resources boom moving to bust and what could that mean for Australia?

Transcript
LEIGH SALES, PRESENTER: They once called it the big Australian, but its profit are shrinking.

BHP Billiton today announced a 35 per cent fall in its earnings and shelved plans to expand its mining operations at Olympic Dam in South Australia.

It's more evidence that the resources boom has peaked.

Now, some leading analysts fear the cycle will shift from boom to bust, as China's economy grinds down.

The fallout for Australia's economy and the federal budget could be severe.

Stephen Long reports.

STEPHEN LONG, REPORTER: The red ore from the west and the black coal from the eastern states has been gold for Australia.

The richest resources boom in history has boosted the nation's income, filled the Government's coffers and helped Australia achieve a record 21 years without recession. But the peak has come and gone.

STEVE JOHNSON, MD, INTELLIGENT INVESTOR: I think we are seeing the beginning of the end.

CHRIS RICHARDSON, DELOITTE ACCESS ECONOMICS: A strong bit of Australia's two-speed economy will weaken over the next couple of years.

STEPHEN LONG: BHP Billiton's profit slump, announced today, is a sign of the times, down a massive 35 per cent.

GRAHAM KERR, CFO, BHP BILLITON: Weaker commodity prices and cost pressures have presented a challenge for the industry.

STEPHEN LONG: The shelving of its Olympic Dam mine expansion is a major blow to the South Australian economy.

MARTIN FERGUSON, RESOURCES MINISTER: Look at the drop in commodity prices, look at the earnings of BHP Billiton. Ya know, Olympic Dam was competing with all the other BHP Billiton projects around the world in terms of potential investment funding.

STEPHEN LONG: The coal industry is already shedding jobs.

NEWSREADER: It's the end of an era in the tiny town of Dysart in central Queensland, where mining giant BMA has closed one of the town's two coal mines.

STEPHEN LONG: In iron ore makes up a fifth of Australia's exports.

As China's economy cools and supply increases, prices have slumped in recent months to a two-year low.

STEVE JOHNSON: We may well see a Chinese stimulus over the next six months, but we've seen the start of a slowdown there that I expect to last quite a long time, and that's happening at the same time that we've got an incredible amount of supply coming on stream. So, I think we're going to see much lower commodity prices for a long time.

STEPHEN LONG: The question is: is this a commodity price correction or the beginning of a bust? The answer lies in China.

PATRICK CHOVANEC, TSINGHUA UNIVERSITY, BEIJING: The Chinese financial system is a closed system, but very serious cracks are emerging that are sending up some real red flags.

STEPHEN LONG: Professor Patrick Chovanec is based at Tsinghua University in Beijing. This respected analyst fears China's economy is spiralling down in a vicious circle of unsustainable investment and bad loans.

PATRICK CHOVANEC: You've had an explosion of shadow banking, a proliferation of risks, generating the kind of credit that's been necessary to keep the investment boom going year after year. All it takes really is one or two medium-sized companies to go bankrupt for a domino effect.

STEPHEN LONG: With the dominoes falling as far afield as the Pilbara and the Bowen Basin.

PATRICK CHOVANEC: Australia has been riding China's investment boom. It's been feeding China's demand for iron ore and other raw materials. The fact is that investment boom was a windfall. It's not sustainable and it's starting to break down.

STEPHEN LONG: Steve Johnson shares these fears. His Intelligent Investor fund recently issued a report predicting the China bubble will burst.

STEVE JOHNSON: They have a bubble in infrastructure. They've been building apartments that no-one can afford to live in, they're building roads that no-one has a car to drive on, they're building airports that people can't afford to fly out of. The infrastructure spend in China has got way ahead of its level of economic development and that's where we're going to see a significant slowdown and the Chinese authorities know it.

STEPHEN LONG: The official numbers say China's economy is still growing by more than seven and a half per cent a year, but can we believe it?

PATRICK CHOVANEC: My guess is that the Chinese economy right now is probably growing at about four to five per cent.

STEPHEN LONG: What a slowdown means for Australia depends on how bad it gets. If it merely cools the mining boom, it's far from a disaster.

CHRIS RICHARDSON: A rebalancing of Australia's economy is not necessarily a bad thing. There are a whole bunch of people on the wrong side of the two-speed troubles of the moment. And if you start to get that combination of a lower commodity prices on the one hand and a slowdown after the next year or two in the pace of mining investment in the other, you get a lower Australia dollar, and relative to the rest of the world, you get lower interest rates in Australia.

STEPHEN LONG: The Reserve Bank has squeezed consumers with high interest rates to make space for the mining boom. Retail trade and housing construction might rebound if a slowdown in mining investment leads to lower interest rates and frees up skilled labour. Manufacturers and other exporters could also get relief if falling commodity prices eventually push down the Aussie dollar.

STEVE JOHNSON: Well the thing that gives me some encouragement is that the exporters that are still around are very, very lean and they've been cut to the bone to try and compete in a market where the currency's making things very, very difficult for them. I think if you see that currency come off, you'll see some very, very efficient Australian businesses start to grow quite quickly and start to employ people, which is what we're going to need. So, I think that will be a benefit of the dollar coming off.

STEPHEN LONG: But even short of recession, a major slump in Chinese growth could be calamitous.

PATRICK CHOVANEC: The risk for China is not so much a Lehman's style meltdown as what happened to Japan in the 1990s where banks sat on bad debt for years and it dragged down the Japanese economy.

STEPHEN LONG: For a Labor government that's promised to maintain a budget surplus, even the minor slowdown we've seen so far is a worry.

CHRIS RICHARDSON: If the Treasurer were bringing down this year's budget again tomorrow, it would be back in the red.

PATRICK CHOVANEC: Whether China has a soft landing or a hard landing, the boom that Australia has been riding in terms of iron ore and other commodities is not really a sustainable boom.

STEPHEN LONG: Australia's had mining booms before.

MALE PRESENTER (archive footage): To the Western Australia Cinderella, Prince Charming is iron ore. Mount Tom Price is a mountain of iron ore.

STEPHEN LONG: But the unwavering lesson of history is: the boom always ends.

LEIGH SALES: Stephen Long with that report.

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