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Analysis: China consumers counter economy gloom with travel boom
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Nick Edwards
Reuters
5:22 p.m. CDT, August 12, 2012


BEIJING (Reuters) - Soaring numbers of Chinese tourists packed onto flights out of the country is a sure sign that a fast-growing consumer class of around 130 million is not worried that the likely slowest year of economic growth since 1999 will sap their spending power.

Nearly 39 million mainlanders left China on overseas trips in the first half of 2012, roughly double on five years ago and evidence that a powerful consumer force - envisaged by the top leadership as the engine of economic expansion in a generation to come - may be bulking up faster than thought.

The question for investors is if a burgeoning bourgeoisie is now big enough to fully offset the economic impact of faltering foreign demand evident in data last week, when undershoots in July new bank lending, export, import and industrial output growth prompted analysts to start slicing into GDP forecasts.

Paul French, Shanghai-based chief China strategist at market intelligence consultancy Mintel, says the purest view of the domestic economy's health always comes from the consumer.

"If consumers feel good about things they'll spend. If they don't feel good they'll stop," he told Reuters. "Travel is a good indicator because people are travelling more and they are consuming a lot when they travel abroad."

Investors, facing world growth slowing to levels economists define as marking a global recession, are anxious for any sign that critical consumer mass may have already arrived in China.

Consumer spending in China has comfortably enjoyed double-digit growth for a decade, while exports have slowed to become a net drag on the economy in 2011 and in the first half of 2012.

Retail sales rose 13.1 percent year on year in July. Adjust for inflation and it was the second best month of the year.

But that's not been enough to arrest six straight quarters of slowdown, with the latest Reuters poll forecasting economic growth to slide to 8 percent in 2012 from 9.2 percent in 2011.

While well below the 10 percent average of the last 30 years and a level that has previously prompted urgent action to create jobs, 8 percent remains above Beijing's 7.5 percent target.

Meanwhile the labor market appears tight, with data showing the ratio of vacancies to workers near its highest in 10 years.

STRONGER, FASTER

Evidence that consumers are rapidly getting stronger comes from the Geneva-based Digital Luxury Group, which reckons China's travel market is already worth some $232 billion.

Its new World Luxury Index China Hotels report says Chinese travelers made 70 million overseas trips in 2011 to be pampered at spa resorts in Bali, to shop in Dubai, Paris and London, and to spend in Singapore and Hong Kong.

International Air Travel Association chief executive, Tony Tyler, says airlines will see an extra one billion travelers in a decade if average annual incomes in China hit $15,000.

Part of the proof is in the building going on. China, IATA says, plans to build 56 new airports nationwide before the end of 2016, with a further 16 relocated and 91 being expanded.

Chinese carriers made about half of all the $7.9 billion in profits earned by the global airline industry in 2011, according to IATA, which expects international traffic growth of 8-9 percent from China in the five years to 2015.

A Beijing-backed World Bank report envisages per capita income rising to $16,000 by 2030 from about $5,000 now, with two thirds of economic activity forecast to come from domestic consumption against less than 50 percent now.

CONSUMER CUSHION

Copyright © 2012, Reuters


A shift to the domestic market, leveraging China's 1.3 billion-strong population, would cushion the economy from huge falls in foreign demand that Europe's debt crisis is causing, barely three years on from the trade shock it suffered in the 2008-09 global financial turmoil.

An emerging urban middle class has made grocery shopping the engine of domestic retail sales growth, taking in 41 percent of all retail spending in China which analysts at Citi reckon will be up 55 percent up over five years to $600 billion in 2012.

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Annual double digit wage rises over the last decade - the government has decreed minimum wages rise at least 13 percent in the five years to 2015 - have helped China create what brokerage CLSA says is "the world's best consumption story".

But while workers in the world's second largest economy are earning more, they lag well behind those of the United States.

Average annual wages in the state-owned firms which dominate economic output were 42,452 yuan ($6,700) in 2011 and just 24,556 yuan in the private sector which creates some 75 percent of the country's jobs. The U.S. average wage was $39,959 in 2010, according to the latest data available.

China's wealthy elite, however, have generated a whole new market for the world's luxury personal goods makers, estimated to be worth $25 billion a year now and likely to leapfrog Japan and the United States to the $28 billion top spot by 2015.

It indicates a consumer market presently polarized between the super rich and a middle-class with modest discretionary spending strength, but growing rapidly in size and affluence.

It is one reason why Yolanda Fernandez Lommen, head of the economics unit at the Asian Development Bank's China mission, says a self-sustaining consumer class is some way off.

"We consider that 10-15 percent of the population shows a consumption pattern that is consistent with the type that would be regarded as a solid domestic driver of growth," she said.

"In general, economies where consumption plays a meaningful role as a driver of growth entail a wide middle class that on average comprises about 70-80 percent of the population."

AFFLUENCE ARRIVING

China officially classed 51 percent of its citizens as urban dwellers in 2011, but that includes some 230 million rural migrant workers who generally do poorly paid jobs in cities, lack residency rights in them and have very little to spend.

Only deep structural reforms will turn those migrant workers into fully-fledged urban consumers, Fernandez Lommen said.

Analysts at consultancy, McKinsey, say affluence is arriving faster than many economists anticipate, forecasting a giant leap by 2020 based on annual surveys it has carried out since 2005.

By then China will have 167 million "mainstream" consumer households - those with annual disposable income of between $16,000 and $34,000 - more than 10 times the 14 million, or 6 percent, who currently fit that definition.

There will also be 120 million households with $6,000-$15,999 of spending power, according to McKinsey.

Analysts at Nomura point out that domestic consumption contributed 4.5 percentage points of the 7.8 percent growth in China in the first half of 2012.

All of which implies consumer strength underpinning activity - and the confidence Mintel's French says his clients have in the spending power of China's shoppers at home and overseas.

"The only thing we're seeing slowdown in is some softening in the higher end numbers for luxury goods. But the reason for that is because we have got unparalleled amounts of arbitrage going on from the Chinese going abroad and shopping," he said.

(Editing by Simon Cameron-Moore)

Copyright © 2012, Reuters

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AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Remember that story a while back of how China's rich wanted to leave China? 39 million Chinese traveled overseas in the first half of this year alone. Have we heard of any defections or pleas for asylum from these 39 million who have the opportunity?

Ironic for the democratic West that their leaders have to legitimize their rule just like communists do. Maybe because China is still a developing country the leaders have nothing else but to concentrate on growing the economy. But in the West, they just paint everyone else having it worse as a mark to say how well they're doing as leaders. Which ones do you think are more in trouble? Do you know what skinheads are beyond the hate they represent? They are the failures who can't live up to the standard of white superiority. These people are angry because they see others that shouldn't be passing them by. When you see stories about how the Chinese rich would rather live in the US, that's aimed at the domestic audience to say even though the average joe citizen may see things going bad at home, don't complain about it because the elite in China would throw it all away to trade places with them. That's how crummy the Chinese have it while the poorest of Americans have something that the richest of the rich in China don't. That's how they keep their masses from rioting. That's why the arguments have gone beyond just dollars because a good portion of Americans think China is the top economy in the world. That's why they were bashing China before the Olympics ever started. China was the West's main competition. They don't want people getting the idea that China's success in the Olympics was a reflection of how superior of a society China had compared to theirs. So they make it sound like children are kidnapped from their families never to see them again to gain skills in in something they don't want to do in the first place. All Chinese athletes have miserable lives because they don't do what they do because they choose it but because government chooses it for them.
 
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Franklin

Captain
Special Report - China's answer to subprime bets: the "Golden Elephant"

(Reuters) - The Chinese investment vehicle known as "Golden Elephant No. 38" promises buyers a 7.2 percent return per year. That's more than double the rate offered on savings accounts nationally.

Absent from the product's prospectus is any indication of the asset underpinning Golden Elephant: a near-empty housing project in the rural town of Taihe, at the end of a dirt path amid rice fields in one of China's poorest provinces.

"They haven't even built a proper road here," said Li Chun, a car repairman, who said he lives in the project. "The local government is holding onto the flats and only wants to sell them when prices go up."

Golden Elephant No. 38 is one of thousands of "wealth-management products", instruments aimed at monied investors, which have shown phenomenal growth over the last five years. Sales of them soared 43 percent in the first half of 2012 to 12.14 trillion yuan ($1.90 trillion), according to a report by CN Benefit, a Chinese wealth-management consultancy.

They are usually created in China's "shadow banking" system - non-banking institutions that are not subject to the same regulations as banks - which has grown to account for around a fifth of all new financing in China.

Like the subprime-debt lending spree in the United States that helped spark the 2008 financial crisis, the products are often opaque, and usually dependent on high-risk underlying assets, such as the Taihe housing project.

WARNING BELLS

Financial instability in the world's second-largest economy could have global ramifications, and warning bells have begun to sound about the way these products are marketed in China.

It has become a mammoth industry, comprising an array of financial products. Analysts have different ways of measuring the size of the sector. Barclays estimates some 22 trillion yuan worth of wealth management products will be issued this year. Fitch Ratings says China's banks had about 10.4 trillion yuan in wealth management product liability at the end of June this year

Reuters reviewed more than 50 wealth-management and trust loan products, available online and at bank branches in China, with the aim of tracking, for the first time in certain cases, where investors' money in these products ends up.

All, except two, failed to explain or even display the underlying asset behind the product.

The China Banking Regulatory Commission, which oversees banking products, said more than 20,000 wealth management products were now in circulation, from a few hundred just five years ago.

In an email response to the questions raised in this story, the regulator told Reuters new banking regulations require more transparency about these products.

"It is uncommon to find wealth management products that fail to clearly specify the underlying securitized assets," it said, adding that a regulation issued last year "clearly states that WMP prospectuses must indicate how the money is being used, and the percentage of money that is being put into each asset class."

The commission is looking into further strengthening the regulatory framework over these products, and "will continue to encourage the wealth management industry's growth under the principles of transparency and sufficient risk control".

"PONZI SCHEME"

After a five-year bonanza in sales of these products, signs of trouble are building. China Credit Trust Co, one of the country's biggest trust companies, has disclosed that one of its wealth funds, Jinkai #1, is at risk of default because of money it lent to coal company Zhenfu energy Group. Zhenfu's boss has been arrested, amid reports he owed a total of 500 million yuan.

"Zhenfu Group and related companies have already been sued three times in the second quarter, all because of off-the-balance-sheet fundraising from underground channels," China Credit Trust said on its website, adding that government teams were trying to sort out who was owed what.

If the fund were to fail, it would be one of the first in China's fast-growing trust industry and open up a test case on who is ultimately liable when investment products go bad.

It called to mind the massive losses and widespread bankruptcies in China's trust industry a decade or so ago, when the Guongdong International Trust and Investment Corporation, then one of China's largest state-owned companies, went bankrupt. Some analysts are warning of potential fraud in the industry.

"Some banks have been using new (wealth-management product) proceeds to cover losses from previous products in the pool," said David Cui, a strategist at BofA Merrill Lynch. "In our view, this is not fundamentally different from a Ponzi scheme. The music may stop at a certain point if and when WMP asset size stops expanding."

MANAGING TROUBLED LOANS

Wealth management products are investment tools with a short maturity that banks market as a low risk vehicle for returns higher than savings deposits. The products pool money to invest in a variety of different assets. Some of them, such as the Golden Elephant and Jinkai #1, are linked to high-risk trust loans, with the banks playing a middleman role between the trust company and investor.

At first, products such as Golden Elephant were viewed as a beneficial way for China's banks to manage troubled loans and for its citizens to grow their money by investing beyond the government-set savings rate.

But as China's growth engine slows, concerns are rising that the mountain of products, many with a maturity of a mere four weeks, will struggle to keep the money flowing in. That would leave banks and investors on the hook for any bad lending stemming from these products and strain the financial system at a time when the country's economy looks fragile.

"The concern is if some investors begin to experience losses in these products, this could create a panic among other investors," said Mike Werner, an analyst at Sanford Bernstein. "This could result in investors fleeing these products and result in a liquidity squeeze for this market."

Especially worrisome is the quality and transparency of the products. Liu Shiyu, a vice-governor at the country's central bank, said in June many banks had failed to sufficiently disclose the risks involved in investing in these products, but he did not announce any measures to curb the sector's growth.

ENGINE OF WEALTH?

The 14-page prospectus for "Wealth Management Plan No. 350", sold by China Merchants Bank, says it aims to raise 200 million yuan ($35 million). Not until page 5 is it revealed that the product is linked to the Railway Ministry - whose 2.2 trillion yuan debt ($346 billion) exceeds the combined worth of all major U.S. banks.

The railway operator is seeking to refinance 2.43 trillion yuan ($392 billion). The state-run Beijing Times said it lost 7 billion yuan in the first quarter of this year alone, hit by debt repayments of more than 28 billion yuan in January-March.

The prospectus also says up to 70 percent of the product's proceeds can be used for investments in "other assets", without saying what these assets are. Bank officials said the money is usually put into a common pool for investments, but said they were unable to say exactly where the money was invested.

In the American subprime-mortgage bubble, much of the credit-derivative obligations and other investment instruments underpinned by risky home loans were deemed AAA by ratings agencies. In China, domestic agencies give the railway ministry's bonds their highest ratings -- higher even than U.S. treasuries.

A product called "Wealth Accumulator," sold by Bank of China, only states that the money is being put into high-quality assets that will yield guaranteed returns "significantly higher than term deposits of similar tenor." No other details are offered.

"The problem is that not even high net-worth Chinese people may fully understand the risks involved," said Gigi Chan, who runs the China Opportunities Fund at Threadneedle Investments, which manages more than $123 billion in assets globally.

"They're being told there are guaranteed returns, and people need to consider if these returns are really guaranteed."

SUBPRIME SIMILARITIES

The 5 trillion yuan trust industry, sometimes referred to as "shadow banks", emerged soon after China began opening up in 1979. It was meant to encourage innovation within the financial services sector by lending to higher risk companies that traditional banks would not lend to.

Initially, the trust companies handed out loans by channeling money from institutional investors to companies that needed them, taking a cut in the process. That has changed in the past few years.

Banks started working closely with trust companies by packaging trust loans into bite-sized wealth management products to cater to yield-chasing depositors, or by selling trust loan products directly to its depositor base at their retail branches.

Banks also began transferring non-performing debts to roughly 60 trust companies, which in turn packaged the debt into investment products that were sold back to retail customers or marketed with a bank. These vehicles typically focused on property investments, because Beijing was cracking down on bank loans to developers.

Around the same time, many Chinese banks began offering higher returns on securities they labeled "wealth management products" to people looking for a better return on their money.

CASH PRESSURES

Deposit growth at Chinese banks, meanwhile, slowed to around 13 percent last year, its slowest pace in decades.

Money flowing out of saving deposits and into wealth-management products poses a potential threat to banking stability, because it reduces the amount of money banks have on hand to lend and could lead to cash pressures, analysts warn.

"Fitch has long emphasized that the greatest risk associated with Chinese banks' wealth management activity is the strain it places on funding and liquidity," Fitch analyst Charlene Chu said in a research note. "The risk was easily controllable when the amount of outstanding products remained small. But it is increasingly difficult for Chinese banks to manage."

Chinese banks say they prefer straight deposits, but that the wealth tools are a response to the demands of a market that has shown explosive growth.

"Customer expectations on financial services have been rising," China Construction Bank President Zhang Jianguo told Reuters. "To ensure our wholesome development, to keep customers and attract new ones, wealth management products have now become an essential part of any financial offering."

All other banks mentioned in this report declined to comment.

TWO-WEEK TENURES

The banking regulator implemented rules last year to curb sales of some of the riskier products, including those with one-month or less maturity dates, and those linked to Chinese pawn shops.

But most products still carry tenures of less than one year -- advisory firm KPMG says only 3 percent extend beyond two years. Information is opaque, rules are open to interpretation.

"One of the key problems is that short-term financing is being used to pay for a long-term project," said May Yan, head of China bank research at Barclays in Hong Kong. "Infrastructure projects should be funded by long-term bonds. Unfortunately, China doesn't have that."

The banking regulator has tried to protect the small investor with a rule issued last year requiring that only individuals with more than 1 million yuan in cash could invest directly into trust products.

At bank branches in two Chinese cities visited as part of the Reuters review, that rule was easy to get around.

Customers at banks in Nanchang and Shenzhen, unable to cough up the initial 1 million yuan investment, were offered the option of pooling their money together with others to meet the minimum sum required.

"ON PAPER..."

The trusts, also called "shadow banks", create the wealth management products and then give them to banks to sell to their customers.

The bank staff Reuters spoke to stressed the low-risk nature of the products, despite the higher-than-normal returns being promised. They often could not say where the proceeds of the product would be invested.

"On paper, these are not principal guaranteed but you don't have to worry about that," said a wealth manager at a local branch of Bank of Communications, China's No. 5 lender. "All our clients who've previously bought these products got their principal plus interest back."

It is not entirely clear who bears the risk if the products default.

China's courts have in the past ordered banks to compensate investors who had lost money buying mutual funds and other financial products, prompting some to suggest a string of such defaults could weigh heavily on China's major lenders.

But the fine print in most of the documentation for these products puts the onus squarely on the investor.

"The question really is, at the end of the day, who is on the hook?" said Werner at Sanford Bernstein.

Hao Xueqi, a homemaker who was at Shenzen branch of China Construction Bank, was unfazed.

"I've bought these products and have always gotten my money back," she said. "I usually go with the bigger banks because they have a better reputation and won't close down with my money."

SUBSIDISED HOUSING

The proceeds from sales of the "Golden Elephant" product were channeled to Taihe City Construction Co., a local government financing vehicle. Taihe is an agricultural town in impoverished Jiangxi province, where annual incomes reached 4,500 yuan a year in 2010, barely a tenth of Beijing residents.

Taihe City Construction Co. used the 50 million yuan raised to pay off part of the cost of constructing the subsidized housing units, according to the product's prospectus.

"The central government wanted more subsidized housing, so they just removed all the farmers here and told them to leave," said Taihe resident Xiao Hongmei. "The farmers who used to live here were promised flats, but many of them haven't got anything so far."

A spokesman at the publicity department of the Taihe government office declined to comment, referring queries to the Jiangxi provincial government.

Xu Weiguo, a deputy director at the province's economic planning department, said Jiangxi was a model province in keeping any economic risks to a minimum.

"We always study the central government's instructions very closely and follow the rules," Xu said in a telephone interview. "There will not be any problems with our books."

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Player 0

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China labour costs like US 'within years'
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by: From correspondents in Beijing
From: AFP
July 29, 2012 8:55PM
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Chinese labours work at an electrical products factory in Hefei, in east China's Anhui province.
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RAPID wage increases are threatening China's competitiveness, but improved productivity and other advantages mean it will continue to attract investors, analysts say.
Labour costs in China would match those of the United States within four years, catching up with eurozone countries in five years and with Japan in seven, the French bank Natixis forecast in a study last month.

China "will soon no longer be a competitive place for production given the strong rise in the cost of production", the bank said.

It is a view backed by the respected Boston Consulting Group (BCG), which said in a study last August that by around 2015 manufacturing in some parts of the United States would be "just as economical as manufacturing in China".

Examples of major manufacturers leaving China abound - BCG said US technology giant NCR has moved its manufacture of ATMs to a factory in Columbus, Georgia, that will employ 870 workers as of 2014.

Adidas announced recently that it would close its only directly owned factory in China, becoming the latest major brand to shift its manufacturing to cheaper countries, though it maintains a network of 300 Chinese contractors.

Chinese workers making athletic shoes are paid at least 2000 yuan ($300) a month, while their Adidas colleagues in Cambodia only earn the equivalent of $130, the German company said.

Underlining the trend, the salaries of Chinese urban-dwellers rose 13 per cent in the first half of 2012 compared with the same period last year, the government said in mid-July.

Migrant workers, who are among the lowest-paid in the country, saw raises of 14.9 per cent for an average of 2200 yuan a month.

The most significant wage hikes in 2010 and 2011 often came following strikes at Japanese companies such as Toyota and Honda.

Natixis said the increases could spur manufacturers to relocate to South and South-East Asia, where labour costs are much lower, and could also benefit countries such as Egypt and Morocco, or even European ones like Romania and Bulgaria.

However, not all economists believe China will lose its manufacturing edge, thanks in part to improvements in productivity.

"Most of the increase in wages has been offset by strong productivity growth," said Louis Kuijs, project director at the Fung Global Institute, a research body that specialises in Asian economies.

Worker productivity has increased at a faster rate than wages in the southern Pearl River Delta, the heart of China's vast manufacturing industry, according to 200 companies surveyed early this year by Standard Chartered Bank.

"China's share of the world's low-end exports has started to fall after years of rapid rises in wages, land costs and appreciation of renminbi (the currency)," said Wang Qinwei, a China economist at Capital Economics.

"But this has been offset by a growing market share in high-end products."

Capital Economics said in a research note published in March: "China's export sector overall appears no less competitive now than a few years ago.

"Average margins in light industry have increased over the past three years thanks to rapid productivity growth."

China's coastal areas offered an effective business environment that would continue to draw investors, as would lower costs in inland provinces, said Alistair Thornton, China economist at IHS Global Insight.



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Anyone have any opinions on the validty of these kinds of predictions?

I for one think wages will still be based on a region by region basis with the coastal regions having first world level wages but inland having less to continue to attract jobs.
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
Anyone have any opinions on the validty of these kinds of predictions?

I for one think wages will still be based on a region by region basis with the coastal regions having first world level wages but inland having less to continue to attract jobs.


Same old dooms day drama about China's decline...with the same end result at 8% GDP growth rate...different day by different author.
 

s002wjh

Junior Member
Remember that story a while back of how China's rich wanted to leave China? 39 million Chinese traveled overseas in the first half of this year alone. Have we heard of any defections or pleas for asylum from these 39 million who have the opportunity?

Ironic for the democratic West that their leaders have to legitimize their rule just like communists do. Maybe because China is still a developing country the leaders have nothing else but to concentrate on growing the economy. But in the West, they just paint everyone else having it worse as a mark to say how well they're doing as leaders. Which ones do you think are more in trouble? Do you know what skinheads are beyond the hate they represent? They are the failures who can't live up to the standard of white superiority. These people are angry because they see others that shouldn't be passing them by. When you see stories about how the Chinese rich would rather live in the US, that's aimed at the domestic audience to say even though the average joe citizen may see things going bad at home, don't complain about it because the elite in China would throw it all away to trade places with them. That's how crummy the Chinese have it while the poorest of Americans have something that the richest of the rich in China don't. That's how they keep their masses from rioting. That's why the arguments have gone beyond just dollars because a good portion of Americans think China is the top economy in the world. That's why they were bashing China before the Olympics ever started. China was the West's main competition. They don't want people getting the idea that China's success in the Olympics was a reflection of how superior of a society China had compared to theirs. So they make it sound like children are kidnapped from their families never to see them again to gain skills in in something they don't want to do in the first place. All Chinese athletes have miserable lives because they don't do what they do because they choose it but because government chooses it for them.

given the chance most immigrant whether chinese/india prefer living in US, canada or other western nation. and if you ask most chinese student here prefer find a job in US, they move back to china only if they have hard time to find a job or chance of making substantial $$$ in their home country(but this is less likely, and the miniority).

as for labor cost and western company move to other country. usually its the low-end stuff, textile, shoes etc etc.
 

solarz

Brigadier
given the chance most immigrant whether chinese/india prefer living in US, canada or other western nation. and if you ask most chinese student here prefer find a job in US, they move back to china only if they have hard time to find a job or chance of making substantial $$$ in their home country(but this is less likely, and the miniority).

as for labor cost and western company move to other country. usually its the low-end stuff, textile, shoes etc etc.

The minority?

Of the dozen or so Chinese classmates my wife had, only 2 of them remained in Canada. All the rest returned to China.

What you don't seem to understand is that most of the new generation of students come from wealthy families, and they have a much better future in China than here.

This is why the idea that wealthy Chinese want to leave China is bunk. Sure there's a lot of them purchasing homes and getting citizenship in Canada and US, but all of their businesses and work are still in China. To them, North America is cottage country.
 

s002wjh

Junior Member
The minority?

Of the dozen or so Chinese classmates my wife had, only 2 of them remained in Canada. All the rest returned to China.

What you don't seem to understand is that most of the new generation of students come from wealthy families, and they have a much better future in China than here.

This is why the idea that wealthy Chinese want to leave China is bunk. Sure there's a lot of them purchasing homes and getting citizenship in Canada and US, but all of their businesses and work are still in China. To them, North America is cottage country.

yes and most wealth kids don't study hard like student who actually got here with their own hard work. goto US university most foreginer student want to stay in US if they can find a jobs.

the fact they are getting US/canada citizenship already say something. its their back up plan, they might want to retire or have their kids growup in US or other reasons etc etc. 2 of my uncle and my older cusin bought the canada investment residency, they still has factory in china, but most their asset and their family are living in canada. their reason they want their kids and family live in canada or US. and they certainly prefer the environement here.

ask any chinese given the chance would they want to stay in US, and we already know most likely answer. the fact you and other members on this forum live in western country already indicate this is true for most immigrant, otherwise you will be living in china rather than US/canada. heck i have investment in china too, but my family and home are here in the state.
 

solarz

Brigadier
yes and most wealth kids don't study hard like student who actually got here with their own hard work. goto US university most foreginer student want to stay in US if they can find a jobs.

the fact they are getting US/canada citizenship already say something. its their back up plan, they might want to retire or have their kids growup in US or other reasons etc etc. 2 of my uncle and my older cusin bought the canada investment residency, they still has factory in china, but most their asset and their family are living in canada. their reason they want their kids and family live in canada or US. and they certainly prefer the environement here.

ask any chinese given the chance would they want to stay in US, and we already know most likely answer. the fact you and other members on this forum live in western country already indicate this is true for most immigrant, otherwise you will be living in china rather than US/canada. heck i have investment in china too, but my family and home are here in the state.

There is no doubt that for some people, myself included, staying in North America is the better choice. However, that doesn't mean we represent a trend, or is even a majority.

As I have pointed out, and which you acknowledged, the wealthy Chinese certainly do not want to work in a new country. Here, they have none of the connections and resources that they have in China. North America is their vacation and retirement plan, which makes sense because the pace of life in China is absolutely hectic compared to here.

What does this imply for the economy? Well, there is some brain and capital drain, but considering the size of China, it is negligible.

The investment of wealthy Chinese is not always welcome either, especially since they tend to invest in real estate and not in businesses (which they know nothing about over here). This means rising real estate prices and lots of locals complaining about unable to afford to home ownership.

Furthermore, most of the consumption by these Chinese ex-pats will be focused on Chinese exports. A 100k luxury car is a lot of money, but it is dwarfed by their daily living costs: buying chinese grocery, eating out at chinese restaurants, buying chinese furniture, buying chinese clothing, visiting China via a chinese airline, etc. Meanwhile, they're taking advantage of the free canadian health care all the while paying very little taxes (they're retired, remember?).
 
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