Chinese Economics Thread

[AssassinsMace]

People who complain about others exercising their rights in the land of freedom should leave and give up US citizenship or whatever country you hide behind in the name of freedom. I love the irony that you should shut up, not criticize, and not defend against those that hide behind freedom to attack people.

Hitler believed in his own rights. Does that make him a human rights champion? I bet Hitler defended the rights of people who thought just like him too. Does that make him a human rights advocate for all? It's easy to believe in your own rights. The trick is do you believe in them for all? Why are rights so important? Because they belong to everyone and no one has the right to take them away from you. Some people think they are owed loyalty because they gave people rights. No, if you think you gave anyone rights, then you took them away in the first place.

 

[Equation]

People who complain about others exercising their rights in the land of freedom should leave and give up US citizenship or whatever country you hide behind in the name of freedom. I love the irony that you should shut up, not criticize, and not defend against those that hide behind freedom to attack people.

Hitler believed in his own rights. Does that make him a human rights champion? I bet Hitler defended the rights of people who thought just like him too. Does that make a human rights advocate for all? It's easy to believe in your own rights. The trick is do you believe in them for all? Why are rights so important? Because they belong to everyone and no one has the right to take them away from you. Some people think they are owed loyalty because they gave people rights. No, if you think you gave anyone rights, then you took them away in the first place.

Hmmm...that's interesting, I've never thought of it like that before.

 

[Maggern]

Anyone have any opinions on the validty of these kinds of predictions?

I for one think wages will still be based on a region by region basis with the coastal regions having first world level wages but inland having less to continue to attract jobs.

The article had one example of a firm moving back to the us. I don't see that happening on a large scale for decades and decades. The theme of factories moving to other cheap countries is true. It's a result of China moving up the value chain. I agree that salaries in shenzhen or Shanghai could reach us levels in some years, but the average salary in China is still so far behind it's ridiculous. The gdp per person is equal to El Salvador iirc

 

[Player 0]

High quality global journalism requires investment. Please share this article with others using the link below, do not cut & paste the article. See our Ts&Cs and Copyright Policy for more detail. Email [email protected] to buy additional rights.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

China moves up value chain in Africa
By Simon Rabinovitch in Hong Kong and Katrina Manson in Nairobi
©AFP
When cheap Chinese goods started flowing in big numbers to Africa a decade ago, consumers benefited from lower prices, but local producers such as textile mills saw their businesses suffer.
Now, with Chinese companies moving up the value chain, that trade-off is changing. African consumers are still lapping up Chinese products, but these are more sophisticated. From smartphones to farm threshers, they are elbowing aside foreign, not local, competitors.
More

ON THIS STORY
South Sudan puts Beijing policies to the test
Dambisa Moyo Africa can remind the world of the capitalist way
Ghana leads African quest to boost growth
International banks ramp up in Africa
In depth Africa and China
ON THIS TOPIC
US ‘strongly committed’ to extending Africa trade deal
Retailers wake up to Africa’s promise
‘The Last Hunger Season’ by Roger Thurow
Editorial China into Africa
IN ASIA-PACIFIC
Japan poised to deport Chinese protesters
Japan arrests activists in Senkaku dispute
Beijing considers stronger foreign ties
Australia upholds tobacco branding ban
Chinese exporters have more than tripled their market share in Africa since 2002, supplying 16.8 per cent of the continent’s total imports last year, according to a report published this month by Standard Bank. Over the past four years Chinese companies recorded their biggest gains in selling machinery, vehicles and electronics.
European and Japanese companies have been the losers. African imports from Italy, Spain, Germany, Britain and Japan were all lower last year than they were in 2008. Meanwhile, imports from China surged 38 per cent over that same period.
This data “confirm some of the mature economy fears” that they are losing ground to Chinese exporters in Africa, Standard Bank economists Simon Freemantle and Jeremy Stevens say.
The success of Chinese companies is about more than being cheap. Low prices undoubtedly help, but improvements in product quality and better co-operation between Chinese and African companies in tandem with political ties have also been crucial.
The Ideos phone from Chinese electronics group Huawei is a prime example. Already billed as the world’s most affordable smartphone running Google’s Android system, it is subsidised in Kenya by Safaricom, a mobile network operator, to improve internet penetration.
At 8,000 Kenyan shillings – less than $100 – it is seven times cheaper than other similar smartphones.
“The features sell the phone,” says Martin Muraya, who owns a mobile phone stand in a chemist and has sold all his Ideos stock.
The Ideos was launched in 2010 and had a 45 per cent share of Kenya’s smartphone market less than a year later.
Shipments of Chinese goods to Africa have followed a path ploughed by Chinese money. Chinese companies have invested about $13bn in Africa, most since 2000, according to Standard Bank.
“It complements the competitiveness of Chinese firms in Africa,” the report says.
Zhenjiang Shenglong Machinery Manufacturing, a medium-sized maker of farming equipment in China’s Jiangsu province, gained exposure to Africa by contributing to aid missions.
“We were doing well in the Chinese market, but we realised that our products would die out domestically eventually. We had to break into other under-developed countries,” Luo Min, chairman of Zhenjiang Shenglong, says.
His company made about $3m in sales to Africa last year. For big purchases, Zhenjiang Shenglong sends trainers to teach farmers how to use and maintain the machines.
“Our competitors, some of which make better equipment, offer no training. No matter how good the machine is, without farmers knowing how to use it, it’s nothing but a waste,” Mr Luo says.
But even as Chinese companies fight to move up the value chain, the old guard of the country’s exporters – those making cheap and often shoddy goods – still cast a long shadow.
In Nairobi, Chinese-made goods fill market stands and shop shelves, but many are counterfeits, such as “Nokla” and “Sumsang” phones. So prolific are the imported fakes, locals give them the catch-all tag, “China phones”.
In One World Networks, an electronics shop in central Nairobi, staff say customers regularly return Chinese-made laptops and printers. Yet sales assistant Eunice says they have no choice but to keep buying them.
“The African market is Chinese. They help us because it’s the only one we can afford,” she says. “But they fail more. It works two days and fails the third.”
Additional reporting by Zhou Ping in Hong Kong

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

 

[A.Man]

The article had one example of a firm moving back to the us. I don't see that happening on a large scale for decades and decades. The theme of factories moving to other cheap countries is true. It's a result of China moving up the value chain. I agree that salaries in shenzhen or Shanghai could reach us levels in some years, but the average salary in China is still so far behind it's ridiculous. The gdp per person is equal to El Salvador iirc

Not Much But A General View Of China Current Wages In Different Area & Fields

网曝央企职工年均工资超10万 是私企职工4.2倍
2012-08-16 08:02:58 华商网 【大 中 小】
近日，有媒体对117家央企及其上市子公司共261家在岗职工年平均工资进行整理，发现2011年央企及其上市子公司在职员工平均工资为102965元，是去年城镇非私营单位在职员工年平均工资的2.4倍，是城镇私营单位在职员工年平均工资的4.2倍。

垄断企业工资远远高于社会平均工资

自2010年以来，各省市陆续发布了企业工资指导线，北京市规定属垄断行业的企业、国家财政补贴的国有及国有控股企业，职工平均工资增长幅度一般不突破基准线10.5%。山西发布了今年的工资指导线，规定企业工资增长基准线为15%，上线为22%，下线为4%，垄断企业工资增长幅度原则上不得突破15%的基准线。虽然各省陆续对垄断企业工资增长进行封顶，但是垄断企业的工资仍然远远高于社会平均工资。

金融业平均年薪26万

工资最高

2011年央企在职职工平均工资和非私营单位在职员工年平均工资之间存在差距，差距最大的行业是建筑业，央企在职员工年平均工资是非私营单位在职员工年平均工资的3.48倍，差别最小的行业是计算机服务和软件业，央企在职员工年平均工资是非私营单位在职员工年平均工资的1.3倍。

除了和社会整体行业之间有差距，央企在职员工年平均工资在央企内部不同的行业之间也存在着差别，平均工资最高的是金融业，高达260035元，其次是交通运输业，平均工资是158373元，排在第三的是房地产业，平均工资为143979元。平均工资最低的是农、林、牧、渔业，为71082元，远远低于金融业。

几宗“最”：招商银行员工平均年薪44万“独占鳌头”

最富有员工为招商银行员工。招商银行2011年在职员工平均工资为447357元，不仅位居银行业第一，也是在央企所涉及的行业中独占鳌头。

最贫穷员工为葫芦岛锌业员工。2011年葫芦岛锌业在职员工平均工资为25066元，但是仍然比去年城镇私营单位就业人员平均工资多出1000元。

央企数量最多的地方北京。在所调查的央企（包括其上市子公司）中，注册地或总部在北京的央企数量最多，为66家，占所调查总量的四分之一。

员工平均工资最没有地域差异的行业电力。各个省电力公司在职员工年平均工资均在100000元左右波动，北京电力在职员工年平均工资为128738元，内蒙古电力在职员工年平均工资为112875元，四川电力在职员工年平均工资为127403元。

区域对比

在陕央企职工年均工资7.6万

记者查阅媒体整理的数据，央企及其上市子公司员工年平均工资在区域分布上也不平衡，广东央企的员工平均工资最高，年平均工资为219917元，其次是天津，员工年平均工资为175287元，最低的是云南，员工年平均工资为46424元。即使同一区域内员工的平均工资也有差别。统计显示，在陕央企年均工资为76191元。为此记者采访陕西多名央企职工，他们均表示：自身收入还没到这个数，但单位职工平均收入应该差不多。

中国石油集团测井有限公司，是注册地在西安的中国石油集团直属公司，该公司一名不愿具名员工“80后”的杨先生告诉记者，他去年收入6万多元。据其进一步介绍，该公司“在工程一线的员工收入高一些，年收入10万元左右，因此单位职工平均收入应该差不多有这个数。”另据延长石油集团员工“80后”李先生、华电榆林天然气化工有限公司“80后”刘先生表示，他们年均工资都超6万元，但还没达到上述统计说的76191元。招行榆林分行一位不愿具名的“80后”员工告诉记者，其年均工资近20万元。

专家建议

改变对垄断行业高管考核方式

据媒体统计发现，去年上市央企平均工资为102965元，是私企的4.2倍，而且各区域差异悬殊，比如广东最高，云南最低。对此，专家怎么看？

西安交通大学经济与金融学院教授李富有说：“高收入公司，大多隶属电力、金融、通讯等行业，而这些行业大多企业经营也比较完善，所以职工的高工资也是可以理解的。而民营企业收入不高，也与其参差不齐、经营较差等有关系。而相对来说，陕西的装备制造行业则做得不好，职工待遇也较低，职工收入也有待提高。”

而财经评论人士叶檀则直白地表示：“垄断行业高收入，这是一个老话题了，也是一个'老大难'问题。且不说职工工资高收入了，还有各种福利收入，以及高管的垄断收益等等问题，怎么解决呢？除非解除垄断。但问题是，这些企业现在大多还打着市场化运作的幌子，因此真的很麻烦，也很难解决。”

“除非国资委对垄断行业的高管改变考核方式，而收入按照资产收入来计算，从而限制垄断性行业高管收入，这或许也是解决办法之一。”叶檀说。

Auto Translation:

The average annual wage of over 100,000 net exposure of the central enterprises Staff is 4.2 times that of private company workers
2012-08-16 08:02:58 华商网【大 中 小】
Recently, media 261 of the 117 central enterprises and its listed subsidiaries of workers is the average wage of sorting and found that the average wages of 2011 employees of the central enterprises and its listed subsidiaries of 102,965 yuan, the urban private units last year, employees 2.4 times the average wage is 4.2 times that of their urban private workers the average wage.

Monopoly wage is much higher than the average social wage

Since 2010, the provinces and cities being released enterprise wage guidelines, Beijing provisions of monopoly industries, enterprises, state financial subsidies to state-owned and state holding enterprises, workers' average wage increase is generally not exceeded the baseline by 10.5%. Shanxi released this year's wage guidelines, the provisions of the enterprise wage increase baseline 15% and 22% for on-line, off the assembly line for 4%, monopoly wage increases in principle not exceed 15% of baseline. Provinces, one after another monopoly wage increase cap, but the monopoly of the wage is still far higher than the average wage.

The financial sector the average annual salary of 260,000

The highest wages

2011 active employees of the central enterprises the average wage and non-private unit employees between the average wage gap, the gap is the largest industry in the construction industry, employees of the central enterprises the average wage of non-employees of the private institutions the average annual wage of 3.48 times the difference between minimum industry, computer services and software industry employees 1.3 times the average wage of the employees of the central enterprises the average wage of non-private unit.

And the gap between the community as a whole industry, the central enterprises serving employees average wages between different industries within the central enterprises, there are differences, the highest average wage in the financial sector, up to 260,035 yuan, followed by the transport industry, the average wage is 158,373 yuan in the third real estate, the average wage of 143,979 yuan. The lowest average wage in agriculture, forestry, animal husbandry, fisheries, 71,082 yuan, much lower than the financial industry.

Few cases of "most": Merchants Bank employees average annual salary of 440 000 "champion"

The richest employees for the Merchants Bank employees. Merchants Bank employees average wage in 2011 was 447,357 yuan, not only ranked first in the banking sector, but also came out top in the central enterprises involved in the industry.

Poorest employees Huludao Zinc Industry employees. 2011 Huludao Zinc Industry employees an average wage of 25,066 yuan, but still more than the average wage of the last year, urban private units Employed Persons 1000 yuan.

The largest number of central enterprises to Beijing. In the central enterprises surveyed (including its listed subsidiaries) registered or headquartered in Beijing, the number of central enterprises, the largest of 66, accounting for a quarter of the total surveyed.

The average wage of employees no regional differences in industry power. Various provincial power company employees average wages fluctuated at around 100,000 yuan, the Beijing Electric Power employees an average wage of 128,738 yuan, the Inner Mongolia Electric Power employees an average wage of 112,875 yuan, Sichuan Electric Power employees an average wage of 127,403 yuan.

Regional Comparison

Shaanxi central enterprises the average annual wage of workers 76000

Reporters access to the media to data compiled by central enterprises and their employees of listed subsidiary of the average annual wage in the regional distribution is uneven, Guangdong central rate of the average wage of employees, average annual salary of 219,917 yuan, followed by Tianjin, employee average wage for 175 287 yuan, the lowest in Yunnan, the employee average wage of 46,424 yuan. Even if the average wage of the employees within the same region there is a difference. Statistics show that in Shaanxi central enterprises the average annual wage of 76,191 yuan. This reporter interviewed the central enterprises in Shaanxi than workers, they both said: their income is not to this number, but should be about the average income of their employees.

China National Petroleum Logging Co., Ltd., is registered in Xi'an, China National Petroleum Group under the company, the company who declined to be named to the staff of "80" Yang told reporters he made last year income over 60,000 yuan. According to further information on the company "in the engineering front-line employees' income, annual income of 10 million, the average income of their employees should be about this number." According to the extension of the Petroleum Group staff "80" Lee, Huadian Yulin Natural Gas Chemical Co., Ltd., "80," Mr. Liu said, their average annual wages of over 60,000 yuan, but have not yet reached 76,191 yuan by the above statistics. Merchants Bank Yulin Branch, who asked not to be named "80" staff told reporters that the average annual wage of nearly $ 200,000.

Experts suggest that

Assessment methods to change the monopoly executives

According to statistics from the media last year, the listing of central enterprises the average wage of 102,965 yuan, 4.2 times the private sector, and regional disparities, such as Guangdong highest in Yunnan lowest. In this regard, the experts how to see?

Professor of Economics and Finance, Xi'an Jiaotong University Li rich, said: "The company of high-income, mostly attached to the electric power, finance, communications and other industries, these industries are mostly business is also more complete, so it is understandable that the high wages of workers, while private enterprises income, but also its uneven and poor, business and other relations, while Shaanxi's equipment manufacturing industry is doing a good job, relatively speaking, treatment of workers is also low, the income of workers needs to be raised. "

Financial commentators Ye Tan is straightforward: "monopoly industries in high-income, this is an old topic, but also a 'persistent' problem, not to mention the wages of workers in high-income, there are a variety of welfare income, and high tube of monopoly profits and so on, how to solve it? unless the lifting of the monopoly. But the problem is that these enterprises are still in the name of the guise of market-oriented operation, so really a lot of trouble, it is difficult to solve. "

"Unless the executives of the SASAC in monopoly industries to change the assessment method and the revenue calculated in accordance with the assets and incomes, thus limiting the monopoly industry executives income and this is perhaps one of the solutions." Ye Tan said.

 

[SampanViking]

Anyone have any opinions on the validty of these kinds of predictions?

I for one think wages will still be based on a region by region basis with the coastal regions having first world level wages but inland having less to continue to attract jobs.

Re Article: Are US salaries falling that quickly!!??

Seriously though, where a company locates or relocates is the result of a complex decision making process and the right decision is usually very different for different companies.

Whether a company stays on the Coast, moves inland or moves abroad will be based on the assessment of who they are, who they want to reach, what they have and what they need.

A lot of Chinese firms will move inland because a lot of migrant workers want to live and work in their home provinces. A lot of infrastructure has now been built and much of it waiting for the influx to lick off in a big way.
You can also forget about these ghost city stories as well, China has a track record of following development rather than leading it. I remember full well in the 90's the media scoffing overt the empty super highways of the Pearl River Delta!
I also remember at about the same time, London Docklands having to offer free lease and mortgage periods, even on rock bottom prices to attract residents and businesses!

 

[Equation]

The article had one example of a firm moving back to the us. I don't see that happening on a large scale for decades and decades. The theme of factories moving to other cheap countries is true. It's a result of China moving up the value chain. I agree that salaries in shenzhen or Shanghai could reach us levels in some years, but the average salary in China is still so far behind it's ridiculous. The gdp per person is equal to El Salvador iirc

True...but cost of living in China is so much cheaper and access to basic living needs are far more developed than say El Salvador.

 

[Quickie]

The article had one example of a firm moving back to the us. I don't see that happening on a large scale for decades and decades. The theme of factories moving to other cheap countries is true. It's a result of China moving up the value chain. I agree that salaries in shenzhen or Shanghai could reach us levels in some years, but the average salary in China is still so far behind it's ridiculous. The gdp per person is equal to El Salvador iirc

I don't know how the author come to that conclusion. My guess is, even in the coastal cities, it will probably take about 2 decades for labour cost to equal that of advanced countries. By the time most of China's labour intensive factories would have already moved inland for its cheaper cost with the higher end factories still remaining in coastal cities.

 

[AssassinsMace]

I think Beijing has barely a clue on what kind of money is being made in China. Billionaires get arrested for tax evasion only because they can't hide the money they've made anymore. They've made so much money under the radar there comes a point their ego has to show it off and that's what gets the government's attention and they get arrested. That tells you you can hide a lot of money in China. I think China is quite the opposite of the police state stereotype. China is so big, so many people, so much is going on... Beijing can't keep track of mostly everything.

Official figures don't mesh with reality. Most Chinese that buy cars buy the foreign brand. Those cars are comparable in price to those in the US. I think I read recently that per capita income is now close to $5000 USD. China held the title of largest car market in the world. How can those people afford to buy a car. Look at that earlier article in this thread of how 39 million Chinese tourists traveled overseas in the first half of this year. The average Chinese tourist supposedly now are the biggest spending tourists in the world. That can only happen because the figures are wrong.

 

[Franklin]

China's GDP in 2011 is 7298 billion $ with a per capita income of around $5417 in the US the GDP in 2011 was 15094 billion $ with a per capita GDP of around $48,224 or 8.9x higher. The idea that wages in China is coming close to that of the US and other developed countries is ridiculous the Eurozone and Japan has a per capita income of around $40,000 to $46,000. Of course in China the income is unevenly distributed and some area's like Beijing and Shanghai have income level's of over $20,000 while other parts of China may only have a income level of perhabs $2000. That's why the lower end of manufacturing like toy's and shoe's have moved to either cheaper ASEAN nation's or the more in land area's of China. Personally i think is a good thing that a lot of this cheap manufacturing is moving away, because i believe that the export led model of economic growth is dead in the water as the biggest consumer markets in the world like US, EU and Japan are now all bankrupt. As for China i'm happy to see stock prices drop i'm happy to see industrial production slow and i'm happy to see the GDP slowing as well. Because the economic model they are working on is unsustainable and the slowing economy actually means that the economy is rebalancing.