Chinese Economics Thread

J-XX

Banned Idiot
Zero Hedge is not part of the main stream media and is consider to be a "dissident" website. I take China's problem's seriously, the problem with the western media regarding China is that they cried wolf so many times that they have now lost all their credibility to speak and people respond as "just another China collapse story". But like with the story with the boy that cried wolf one day the wolf will be at the door. Rather China's economy is going to "collapse" is hard to say. But the problem with China is overcapacity in it's economy and a inefficient state own sector. China needs to shed this by allowing them to go bankrupt just like it happened in the 1990's when China took the painful decision to allow a lot of state owned enterprises to go bankrupt and promote privately owned enterprises and got more than a decade of astonishing growth. They need to allow property developers that cannot repay their loans to go bankrupt and they need to allow banks to work through their non performing loans and perhabs break them up and allowing some to go bankrupt. This is what should have happened in Japan in 1990, the US in 2008 and Europe in 2010 and they didn't allow it to happen and now are facing depression like conditions. To China's government's credit they haven't gone for a massive stimulas program like in 2008 and has been putting the breaks on property price rises. The 150 basis point drop of bank RRR is fair because of capital outflows, but the 56 basis point drop in interest rate is not and it's helping more speculation and create more non performing loans. One of the things that i disagree with Zero hedge is that they draw a straight line between GDP growth and electricity use. They say that because electricity use has gone down so much that the economy must be crashing. But the fact is that there are other factors at play like the increase of energy efficiency in the Chinese industry, a fast growing services sector that is low on energy intensity, the increase use of solar energy that is sometime of the grid and yes economic slowdown. The increase use of alternative energy like hydro, solar, wind and nuclear energy and others may also help in part to explain the pile up of coal which they use as another indicator of China's slowing economy. China is slowing no doubt but perhabs not as bad as the media wants to make it out to be.

I agree with you. China needs to shrink the state sector and increase the share of the private sector in the economy. Looking at the recent industrial profits, the stated owned enterprises (SOE) profits were down, private business profits were up. I have been encouraged that private capital has been allowed to enter the state controlled sectors. Moving in the right direction imo.

Electricity consumption is a measure of the manufacturing sector. About 80% of the total electricity consumed is used by the manufacturing sector, so if the manufacturing sector slows, overall electricity consumption will fall since its vastly skewed towards manufacturing. Electricity consumption in the service sector and residential sector has increased, although electricty consumed in the agricultural and manufacturing sectors have decreased. So electricity consumption is a poor measure of the overall economy.

Service sector has been cushioning the slowdown in the manufacturing sector. If we had strong domestic consumption, the manufacturing sector would still have the domestic market to sell into, but since the manufacturing sector is heavily reliant on the overseas markets, its been suffering. The service sector is also a big labour absorber, it employs more people per unit of GDP than the manufacturing or construction sectors. Service sector has alot to do with domestic consumption, so the growth in the service sector is a sign that domestic consumption is starting to pick up. The logistics sector is vital because if the logistics costs are too high in transporting, storage and management, then the overall retail prices for goods will be very high and consumers wont be able to afford those goods.

Premier Wen recently announced cutting more red tape in regulations. The regulatory burden must be cut for small and medium enterprises (SME).

Yes I am glad no big stimulus has been announced because the last stimulus caused 3 big problems 1) high inflation 2) property bubble 3) increased local government debt.
Instead of big fiscal expenditures, stimulus can come from removing unecessary regulations, lowering taxes, improving access to capital for SME, etc.

One of the biggest problems for SMEs is the lack of access to capital. Since most of the capital they get is through bank loans, if banks decide they dont want to loan to risky SMEs and instead lend to big SOEs, then the SMEs are starved of capital. Countries like the US have well developed capital markets SMEs can access to get capital and not rely solely on bank loans, but in china, the capital markets are under developed so chinese SMEs dont have the access to the different sources of capital like US SMEs have. But progress has been made in this areas by the introduction of the high yield bonds (junk bonds) for SMEs. But clearly more needs to be done. OTC markets must be developed too.

China is clearly slowing, and will continue to slow further in 3rd quarter and 4th quarter, but to say its crashing is false. If the private sector is allowed to grow and allow the state sector to shrink, then in the long term this will be very healthy for china. State sector uses too much inputs(land, labour and capital) to produce too little output. Private sector is very efficient in using those limited resources and getting higher output as the free market is allowed to function properly and thus allocates those limited resouces to viable businesses.
Inefficient businesses should be allowed to go bankrupt and industries need to consolidate by M&A, all these things will create a very strong economy in the long term.

I am in favour of cutting the RRR but raising the interest rates. Cutting RRR adds more liqudity into the economy which is needed but I want a higher cost of capital (higher interest rates).
 
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Stephen S. Roach
Stephen S. Roach was Chairman of Morgan Stanley Asia and the firm's Chief Economist, and currently is a senior fellow at Yale University’s Jackson Institute of Global Affairs and a senior lecturer …
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CommentsNEW HAVEN – Concern is growing that China’s economy could be headed for a hard landing. The Chinese stock market has fallen 20% over the past year, to levels last seen in 2009. Continued softness in recent data – from purchasing managers’ sentiment and industrial output to retail sales and exports – has heightened the anxiety. Long the global economy’s most powerful engine, China, many now fear, is running out of fuel.

Illustration by Paul Lachine
CommentsThese worries are overblown. Yes, China’s economy has slowed. But the slowdown has been contained, and will likely remain so for the foreseeable future. The case for a soft landing remains solid.
CommentsThe characteristics of a Chinese hard landing are well known from the Great Recession of 2008-2009. China’s annual GDP growth decelerated sharply from its 14.8% peak in the second quarter of 2007 to 6.6% in the first quarter of 2009. Hit by a monstrous external demand shock that sent world trade tumbling by a record 10.5% in 2009, China’s export-led growth quickly went from boom to bust. The rest of an unbalanced Chinese economy followed – especially the labor market, which shed more than 20 million jobs in Guangdong Province alone.
CommentsThis time, the descent has been far milder. From a peak of 11.9% in the first quarter of 2010, China’s annual GDP growth slowed to 7.6% in the second quarter of 2012 – only about half the outsize 8.2-percentage-point deceleration experienced during the Great Recession.
CommentsBarring a disorderly breakup of the eurozone, which seems unlikely, the International Monetary Fund’s baseline forecast of 4% annual growth in world trade for 2012 seems reasonable. That would be subpar relative to the 6.4% growth trend from 1994 to 2011, but nowhere near the collapse recorded during 2008-2009. With the Chinese economy far less threatened by export-led weakening than it was three and a half years ago, a hard landing is unlikely.
CommentsTo be sure, the economy faces other headwinds, especially from the policy-induced cooling of an overheated housing market. But construction of so-called social housing for lower-income families, reinforced by recent investment announcements in key metropolitan areas such as Tianjin, Chongqing, and Changsha, as well as in Guizhou and Guangdong Provinces, should more than offset the decline. Moreover, unlike the bank-funded initiatives of 3-4 years ago, which led to a worrisome overhang of local-government debt, the central government seems likely to play a much greater role in financing the current round of projects.
CommentsReports of ghost cities, bridges to nowhere, and empty new airports are fueling concern among Western analysts that an unbalanced Chinese economy cannot rebound as it did in the second half of 2009. With fixed investment nearing the unprecedented threshold of 50% of GDP, they fear that another investment-led fiscal stimulus will only hasten the inevitable China-collapse scenario.
CommentsBut the pessimists’ hype overlooks one of the most important drivers of China’s modernization: the greatest urbanization story the world has ever seen. In 2011, the urban share of the Chinese population surpassed 50% for the first time, reaching 51.3%, compared to less than 20% in 1980. Moreover, according to OECD projections, China’s already burgeoning urban population should expand by more than 300 million by 2030 – an increment almost equal to the current population of the United States. With rural-to-urban migration averaging 15 to 20 million people per year, today’s so-called ghost cities quickly become tomorrow’s thriving metropolitan areas.
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CommentsShanghai Pudong is the classic example of how an “empty” urban construction project in the late 1990’s quickly became a fully occupied urban center, with a population today of roughly 5.5 million. A McKinsey study estimates that by 2025 China will have more than 220 cities with populations in excess of one million, versus 125 in 2010, and that 23 mega-cities will have a population of at least five million.
CommentsChina cannot afford to wait to build its new cities. Instead, investment and construction must be aligned with the future influx of urban dwellers. The “ghost city” critique misses this point entirely.
CommentsAll of this is part of China’s grand plan. The producer model, which worked brilliantly for 30 years, cannot take China to the promised land of prosperity. The Chinese leadership has long known this, as Premier Wen Jiabao signaled with his famous 2007 “Four ‘Uns’” critique – warning of an “unstable, unbalanced, uncoordinated, and ultimately unsustainable” economy.
CommentsTwo external shocks – first from the US, and now from Europe – have transformed the Four Uns into an action plan. Overly dependent on external demand from crisis-battered developed economies, China has adopted the pro-consumption 12th Five-Year Plan, which lays out a powerful rebalancing strategy that should drive development for decades.
CommentsThe investment and construction requirements of large-scale urbanization are a key pillar of this strategy. Urban per capita income is more than triple the average in rural areas. As long as urbanization is coupled with job creation – a strategy underscored by China’s concomitant push into services-led development – labor income and consumer purchasing power will benefit.
CommentsContrary to the China doubters, urbanization is not phony growth. It is an essential ingredient of the “next China,” for it provides China with both cyclical and structural options. When faced with a shortfall of demand – whether owing to an external shock or to an internal adjustment, such as the housing-market correction – China can tweak its urbanization-led investment requirements accordingly. With a large reservoir of surplus savings and a budget deficit of less than 2% of GDP, it has the wherewithal to fund such efforts. There is also ample scope for monetary easing; unlike central banks in the West, the People’s Bank of China has plenty of ammunition in reserve.
CommentsA growth slowdown is hardly shocking for an export-led economy. But China is in much better shape than the rest of the world. A powerful rebalancing strategy offers the structural and cyclical support that will allow it to avoid a hard landing.
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Equation

Lieutenant General
I think the slowdown in China's economy will subside later as the holiday seasons is coming and demands for Christmas presents and Halloween stuff will be in demand. And also don't forget it's back to school shopping for many parents and college students.
 
China North Locomotive and Rolling Corp Ltd develops world's most powerful electric locomotive.



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BEIJING -- A major Chinese train maker announced Monday it has developed an electric locomotive with "the world's highest power."

The power, which reaches 10,000 kilowatts, is the world's highest for an electrical locomotive. This compares to the maximum 6,400-kilowatts power for traditional locomotives, according to a spokesman of Datong Electric Locomotive Co Ltd, maker of the railway vehicle.

The company is a subsidiary of China North Locomotive and Rolling Corp Ltd, the country's second-largest train maker.

Designed with a maximum speed that can reach 120 km per hour, the locomotive can carry an estimated 100 railway carriages each weighing 80 tonnes, more than double that of a traditional locomotive, the spokesman said.

Datong Locomotive has developed six types of large-power electric locomotives and become the first Chinese business to export such products to Europe.
 
CSR Corp. together with Kawasaki Heavy Industries Wins Metro Car Project in Singapore for Third Time

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China South Locomotive and Rolling Stock Co., Ltd. (CSR Corp.) announced that the company has won a metro car project in Singapore together with Kawasaki Heavy Industries Ltd. The contract value was not disclosed by CSR Corp.


This is the third time that CSR Corp. has entered Singapore’s metro market along with Kawasaki.


The metro cars in the project will be delivered in 2015-2016.


As of August, CSR Corp. has obtained USD 1.2 billion worth of overseas orders this year, up more than 100 percent year-on-year.
 
Another export deal to Kazakhstan

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BEIJING, Sept. 2 (Xinhua) - China's train exportation towards Kazakhstan are picking up speed, as a Chinese company sold another train with 50 EM70-type carriages this week to the central Asia country, said an official statement Sunday.

The statement posted on the website of Ministry of Railways said that a subsidiary of China CNR Corporation Limited, one of the country's two major train makers, has sold a total of eight trains with 400 EM70 carriages to Kazakhstan during the last two weeks.

The company's train exports to Kazakhstan will add up to 2,000 carriages this year, according to the statement, adding that all these carriages were made in northeast China's city of Harbin.

EM70 is a new type of train carriage specially designed for cargo transportation with hopper door.
 
CSR starts delivery of 40 locomotives to Georgia

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A Chinese electric locomotive manufacturer said on Tuesday it had delivered electric bullet trains that could operate at a maximum speed of 140 kilometers per hour to Georgia.

The electric bullet trains, manufactured by Puzhen Co Ltd, a subsidiary of China South Locomotive and Rolling Stock Corporation Ltd, the country’s largest train manufacturer, marked a breakthrough for Chinese train makers to tap the former Soviet market.

The trains are equipped with CSR’s electric traction system, the network control system and traction motors, according to Zhang Jun, CSR’s vice-president.

Zhang said the delivery of the trains signalled CSR’s expansion in the central Asian market and the company would eye future business opportunities in Ukraine and Azerbaijan that use the same track standards for their railways.

CSR has exported products to countries and regions such as India, Malaysia, Guinea, Argentina, Tunisia and Democratic People’s Republic of Korea.
 

albert001

New Member
Registered Member
One legacy of the planned economy is that bureaucrats are given targets by the central government for everything from steel production to harvests and local GDP. These same officials traditionally have been promoted on their success in making their numbers. However, away from the glare of the headline numbers, several lesser-noticed leading indicators suggest that the world’s second-biggest economy
 

albert001

New Member
Registered Member
One legacy of the planned economy is that bureaucrats are given targets by the central government for everything from steel production to harvests and local GDP. These same officials traditionally have been promoted on their success in making their numbers. However, away from the glare of the headline numbers, several lesser-noticed leading indicators suggest that the world’s second-biggest economy
 
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