Chinese Economics Thread

Strangelove

Colonel
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Bond vigilantes can intimidate the UK, but China is harder to bully​


* The economic fallout from the pandemic has given bond vigilantes a new lease on life, evident in the response to the turmoil in Britain
* These bond investors have less sway in China, but its ‘zero-Covid’ policy and lockdowns still weigh on sentiment and hopes of a stock rally

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Published: 4:30pm, 20 Oct, 2022 Updated: 4:30pm, 20 Oct, 2022


Britain’s prime minister Liz Truss answers questions at the House of Commons in London on October 19. Photo: UK Parliament/ AP

Britain’s prime minister Liz Truss answers questions at the House of Commons in London on October 19. Photo: UK Parliament/ AP

It is a quote that, prior to the mayhem in Britain’s financial markets during the past several weeks, was associated with a bygone era in global finance. James Carville, once an adviser to US President Bill Clinton, said in 1993, “I used to think that if there was reincarnation, I wanted to come back as the president or the pope or a .400 baseball hitter. But now I want to come back as the bond market. You can intimidate everybody.”

The “bond vigilantes” – a term coined by economist Ed Yardeni to describe the ability of global debt investors to impose fiscal discipline on spendthrift governments by driving up their borrowing costs sharply – were nowhere to be seen in the last two decades.
The combination of subdued inflation and the distortive effects of years of ultra-loose monetary policy kept the vigilantes at bay. However, the economic fallout from the Covid-19 pandemic – which forced governments to launch massive stimulus programmes that contributed to the surge in prices – gave them a new lease on life.

As interest rates rise and investors become more sensitive to vulnerabilities in a global economy that risks sliding into recession, the disciplining force of markets is reasserting itself.

Britain has been a red rag to a bull. The fiscal recklessness of Prime Minister Liz Truss’s government caused one of the
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in an advanced economy in recent memory, forcing Truss
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most of the unfunded tax cuts that triggered the turmoil and leaving her premiership hanging by a thread.

In a report published on Tuesday, JPMorgan said the market revolt in the UK was “a wake-up call for central banks and governments alike” the world over. Although Britain’s crisis was
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, other countries are vulnerable, particularly ones where sentiment has already deteriorated significantly and where tensions between government policies and markets are most acute.

Among the world’s major economies, China has caused investors the most distress. Stock markets, particularly Chinese equities listed in the United States and Hong Kong, have fallen almost relentlessly since February 2021. The sell-off deepened this year, with heavy outflows from bond markets amid a 13 per cent drop in the yuan versus the US dollar. An index of US dollar-denominated Chinese junk bonds has lost more than half its value since its peak last year.

The overriding factor, in investors’ eyes, is Beijing’s
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, which includes the frequent imposition of growth-sapping lockdowns in an effort to halt the spread of the virus. While other risks – in particular the crisis in
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– have eroded confidence in China’s economy, the zero-tolerance approach to the virus is far and away the main area of contention between markets and Beijing. It is also one of the biggest drags on the global economy.

Yet, while the government has been forced to take more aggressive measures to
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, it has not budged on its zero-Covid policy. President Xi Jinping intensified the stand-off with markets on Sunday by
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at the Communist Party’s 20th Party Congress, avoiding setting a timeline for lifting restrictions.

This is not just because the Communist Party is a much tougher opponent for markets than Western governments. It is also because the vigilantes have little leverage in China.

Beijing itself has
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, with the International Monetary Fund noting in a report published in January that fiscal policy “turned strongly contractionary” in early 2021 as the policy focus shifted to regulatory tightening and deleveraging. Moreover, consumer inflation remains subdued – partly because of
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by lockdowns – while China runs a current account surplus, in stark contrast to Britain.

Furthermore, China is less exposed to the global financial cycle, with the country’s monetary policy largely independent from that of other advanced economies. While Chinese bonds have been stripped of
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over US Treasuries, contributing to capital outflows, their low correlation with the world’s most liquid debt markets is one of the factors that makes them appealing to many international investors.

That markets pose less of a threat in China is no bad thing. Living with the virus might not be an option given
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and a poorly funded health system. Moreover, whenever the vigilantes have forced the hand of governments, tough austerity measures have ensued and invariably ended up causing a recession, precisely the situation in which Britain
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.

This does not mean that markets are impotent in China. The zero-Covid policy has become the main determinant of sentiment towards Chinese assets and is the key impediment to a meaningful and durable rally, especially in stock markets where valuations
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for some time.

Investors are not in a forgiving mood this year. The vigilantes are bound to intimidate other profligate governments, with Italy particularly at risk. China is not in their sights, but market pressure is palpable. Without an end to disruptive lockdowns, Chinese asset prices will remain under severe strain.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
That boat about not being the largest economy kinda sailed a long time ago, like in 2016 (?). Hence America has committed the trade war aggression which however was a complete rout.

Frankly if most major countries are limping at recession rates, nothing short of a miracle can give China more than 5% growth. Even 5% would be insane.

There is not enough growth in the global economy to sustain China's own growth. Rather than creating empty economy, China should turn more towards kneecapping its competitors while building high living standards at home by redistributing wealth from the ultra wealthy to the low and middle classes.

EU's ability to reinforce America economically is already being actively neutralised. If EU is knocked out of the equation, China will for the first time in recent history have not just the largest gdp among single countries, but larger economy than what the entire West can bring to bear in a conflict. This in turn is vital to out bidding the west when it comes to neutrals like OPEC which are traditionally bribed by the west but can easily turn sides.
lots of moving parts in the next 5 years: Russia-Ukraine(NATO), the evolution of COVID, political instability in some certain country, petrodollar collapse, secured supply of renewables and non-renewables (Power of Siberia 2) coming online, independent semiconductor supply chain, EVs, completion of HSR transit net across Eurasia, full buildup of strategic deterrence, etc.

any one of these going wrong for some certain country would be a hammer blow to their prestige and power. But all of them are progressing rapidly and some are nearing completion.
 

Orthan

Senior Member
CNBC article about china losing manufacturing to other countries.

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Yep, like i said here years ago, the increase in labour (and other) costs will erode china´s appeal as an exporting nation. COVID lockdowns will only exacerbate this trend.
 

SanWenYu

Captain
Registered Member
CNBC article about china losing manufacturing to other countries.

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Yep, like i said here years ago, the increase in labour (and other) costs will erode china´s appeal as an exporting nation. COVID lockdowns will only exacerbate this trend.

As China moving up the value chain, cheap labour jobs moving out of the country has been fully expected for years by everyone including the pan handlers around the Capitol Hill in Washington DC. So it's not something you need to be proud of.

There is nothing new in this CNBC piece. It is the same old garbage being circulated among the west MSM. Bad taste of you, as usual.

Last but not the least, these jobs are not coming back to the west countries. I don't know why you are cheering on this news.

By the way, a bad news for you. China's trade surplus has been increasing while Europe and the US have had greater trade deficit. Who is losing?
 

j17wang

Senior Member
Registered Member
As China moving up the value chain, cheap labour jobs moving out of the country has been fully expected for years by everyone including the pan handlers around the Capitol Hill in Washington DC. So it's not something you need to be proud of.

There is nothing new in this CNBC piece. It is the same old garbage being circulated among the west MSM. Bad taste of you, as usual.

Last but not the least, these jobs are not coming back to the west countries. I don't know why you are cheering on this news.

By the way, a bad news for you. China's trade surplus has been increasing while Europe and the US have had greater trade deficit. Who is losing?

The question we should ask is "Is it better to export a 100 million cell phones or one million EVs?" I don't actually know the answer, but that essentially is the crux of the problem.
 

Overlord

New Member
Registered Member
CNBC article about china losing manufacturing to other countries.

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Yep, like i said here years ago, the increase in labour (and other) costs will erode china´s appeal as an exporting nation. COVID lockdowns will only exacerbate this trend.
It's not much about cost , main factor is geo political tensions & fear of America & It's allies sanction on china .

America has sanctioned entire Xinjiang region, various tech sector , entire semiconductor industry , these things makes harder for any companies to do business in china if it's involved in any of those sectors , that's why they are shifting to Vietnam, Indonesia & india plus various other countries . Also after covid pandemic entire companies are diversing supply chain & focusing on china +1 strategy because pandemic exposed too much dependence on china according to multinational companies.
 

canonicalsadhu

Junior Member
Registered Member
CNBC article about china losing manufacturing to other countries.

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Yep, like i said here years ago, the increase in labour (and other) costs will erode china´s appeal as an exporting nation. COVID lockdowns will only exacerbate this trend.
Lol the geniuses at CNBS saw that China's share of global exports of footwear, handbags, furniture, and clothing has decreased since 2016 and have concluded that China is losing manufacturing. Yeah... right... I'm going to take a wild guess that they conveniently didn't look at global exports of EVs, solar panels, ships, electrical / mechanical equipment and other high-end manufacturing.
 

PopularScience

Junior Member
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CNBC article about china losing manufacturing to other countries.

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Yep, like i said here years ago, the increase in labour (and other) costs will erode china´s appeal as an exporting nation. COVID lockdowns will only exacerbate this trend.

No. Factory also move to inlands. For example...

Investment of 1.1 billion: This shoe company has built a factory of 270 acres in Guangdong and is an OEM for Nike and NB!

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escobar

Brigadier
US tariffs are not the only “cause” of the United States importing less from China. Some labor-intensive production closely associated with much of the clothing and footwear industry was likely relocating anyway, following a trend that was visible even before the trade war. China was losing competitiveness in this industry, relative to other emerging economies, as local wages have increased. (For other products, Vietnam may be rising as a source at the expense of other higher-income countries, such as South Korea.)

The full implications of any “movement” of economic activity that the data reveal also remain imperfect. For example, companies may be adding a separate assembly facility in Vietnam to service US consumers without having to pay the trade war tariffs. The same firms may also be keeping their Chinese facilities to continue to manufacture for the Chinese market as well as for other countries that have not imposed new tariffs on imports from China.

Such redundant investments come with higher costs. There is the initial, one-time expenditure of establishing the new assembly plant. But there may also be additional (and ongoing) costs associated with operating two supply chains, each on a smaller scale than previously when it was all being done in China.
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