Chinese Economics Thread

[Coalescence]

Zero covid is currently the only solution because the CPC didn't have the courage to force or soft-force (European approach) the elderly to start vaccinating.

I hope that this debacle has woken them to start moving on this direction. Its simple, given the gigantic elderly population, if they are not fully vaccinated with 3 doses, the zero covid strategy will have to continue. So now its a race for time to vaccinate as many elderly as possible

From the articles I read, they are now prioritizing elderly vaccination and is planning campaigns to get them to vaccinate. But besides vaccinating the elderly, I think they need to learn to loosen up a bit and stop resorting to lockdowns every time there's a dozen of cases, and instead quickly build up testing capacity and isolation bed, then mass test consistently.

The idea of locking up possible infected patients in buildings with poor ventilation, is just waiting for everyone in it to eventually get infected. I think the key to beating this is by mass building isolation centers, like they were able to build an entire makeshift hospital in 2 weeks, then quickly spot and isolate infected individuals.

 

[Overbom]

But besides vaccinating the elderly, I think they need to learn to loosen up a bit and stop resorting to lockdowns every time there's a dozen of cases, and instead quickly build up testing capacity and isolation bed, then mass test consistently.

China is a huge country. If you slip up, you can be damn sure that it will start uncontrollably spreading. My main argument was that the government didn't move fast enough to force the elderly to vaccinate.

Until vaccinations start picking up, zero covid and strict localised lockdowns is the way to go

 

[Blitzo]

I don't disagree with you on that. China is actually the role model for beating pandemics. If everyone had acted like China, humanity would have most likely beaten covid a long time ago.

Unfortunately we have to suffer through other countries' idiotic policies. In any case, China has to daily deal with all these irresponsible countries which means that previous policies will most likely have to be adjusted (probably after the Party Congress) because China and western countries (unfortunately) share the same planet

And because of all of the above, China is in a situation whereby challenges and skepticism to zero covid poses a real material threat to not only population level national health (if large scale disobedience is incentivized, promoted or normalized), but also potentially social and political stability if allowed to fester and improperly managed during this period.

So, it should not be seen as surprising that the space for public discussion and skepticism towards zero covid is relatively small, if anything it should be seen as a prudent measure, while longer term policies are formulated and other measures are carried out and developed.

Perhaps more enlightening and reflective, are the entities, individuals and outlets who choose to signal boost the expressions of skepticism of zero covid and the government's efforts to contain discussion of the topic, and what intentions those outlets and individuals may have.



Putting it another way, when reading any news story or commentary about China, it is always useful to ask oneself:
"Does the existence and circulation of this story now:
A) assist in undermining the control and authority of the CCP in China?
B) assist in enhancing or reinforcing the control and authority of the CCP in China?
C) have no major role in influencing the degree of control and authority of the CCP in China?"

 

[Overbom]

And because of all of the above, China is in a situation whereby challenges and skepticism to zero covid poses a real material threat to not only population level national health (if large scale disobedience is incentivized, promoted or normalized), but also potentially social and political stability if allowed to fester and improperly managed during this period.

So, it should not be seen as surprising that the space for public discussion and skepticism towards zero covid is relatively small, if anything it should be seen as a prudent measure, while longer term policies are formulated and other measures are carried out and developed.

Perhaps more enlightening and reflective, are the entities, individuals and outlets who choose to signal boost the expressions of skepticism of zero covid and the government's efforts to contain discussion of the topic, and what intentions those outlets and individuals may have.

IMO the real conversation shouldnt even be the zero covid policies, but instead force/soft-forcing the elderly to vaccinate.

I agree, as it stands today, zero covid is a necessity, not a choice. What I am more worried is that the CPC fearing even a slight possibility of social unrest, will drop the ball and don't push hard enough to vaccinate the elderly. This would be catastrophic for the economy as the the only pathway out of zero covid is full vaccinations of the elderly

 

[escobar]

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[Coalescence]

China is a huge country. If you slip up, you can be damn sure that it will start uncontrollably spreading. My main argument was that the government didn't move fast enough to force the elderly to vaccinate.

Until vaccinations start picking up, zero covid and strict localised lockdowns is the way to go

I'm not sure if I made this point before, but even if they managed to reach a high vaccination rate for elderly, they still won't let go of zero covid, because vaccinated people can still spread it and harm those who are immune compromised or waning immunity.

I agree that they should vaccinate the elderly as many and fast as possible, however they should couple it with the measures I written before. The goal should be to slow or cut the spread, make every covid wave peak quickly and at low cases.

 

[Blitzo]

IMO the real conversation shouldnt even be the zero covid policies, but instead force/soft-forcing the elderly to vaccinate.

I agree, as it stands today, zero covid is a necessity, not a choice. What I am more worried is that the CPC fearing even a slight possibility of social unrest, will drop the ball and don't push hard enough to vaccinate the elderly. This would be catastrophic for the economy as the the only pathway out of zero covid is full vaccinations of the elderly

My point, is that in relation to your post in 23,211 where you originally wrote "That wont magically grow the economy but whatever" and then edited it to remove it leaving only the various quotes without commentary (which any reader would interpret as conveying disapproval or dismay) -- is that no, the control of online discussion around zero covid "won't magically grow the economy".

However, what it will do is assist in sustaining government authority, control, and thus social and political stability, in a time period where there are elements of social frustrations towards zero covid.
Continued government authority, control, and sociopolitical stability, of course are all the foundations of the state to enable delivery and coordination of services and planning of policies.


After all, this is not being done out of malice.
It's not like the government are going out and killing a corgi every day in front of the people who had the temerity to whine, just to spite them.

 

[Overbom]

My point, is that in relation to your post in 23,211 where you originally wrote "That wont magically grow the economy but whatever" and then edited it to remove it leaving only the various quotes without commentary (which any reader would interpret as conveying disapproval or dismay) -- is that no, the control of online discussion around zero covid "won't magically grow the economy".

I removed that as I thought it would be too much politicising the issue and because it was too much of a "cheap"/low-effort/surface-level thinking comment. If you want a bit deeper explanation about my opinion, zero covid is killing the Chinese economy but zero covid can't be changed because the government didn't take quick action on vaccinations.

So while I don't want zero covid, I aknowledge its importance. You could say I am holding parallel and potentially conflicting (doublethink) thoughts on that matter.

However, ultimately, the way to remove zero covid is to vaccinate the elderly

in a time period where there are elements of social frustrations towards zero covid

Social frustrations are because of harsh lockdowns, killing/seriously harming the economy, while at the same time individuals having minimal economic support. All that for something that won't seriously harm*/kill about (afaik) 99.9% of the non-elderly population.

The fastest way to resolve these "social frustrations" is by phasing out zero covid when the elderly are vaccinated.

*long covid is an exception

 

[Blitzo]

I removed that as I thought it would be too much politicising the issue and because it was too much of a "cheap"/low-effort/surface-level thinking comment. If you want a bit deeper explanation about my opinion, zero covid is killing the Chinese economy but zero covid can't be changed because the government didn't take quick action on vaccinations.

So while I don't want zero covid, I aknowledge its importance. You could say I am holding parallel conflicting (doublethink) thoughts on that matter.

However, ultimately, the way to remove zero covid is to vaccinate the elderly


Social frustrations are because of harsh lockdowns, killing/seriously harming the economy, while at the same time individuals having minimal economic support. All that for something that won't seriously harm*/kill about (afaik) 99.9% of the non-elderly population.

The fastest way to resolve these "social frustrations" is by phasing out zero covid when the elderly are vaccinated.

*long covid is an exception

I'm not talking about the importance of zero covid.

I'm talking about the importance of controlling the space for discussion about zero covid, which is what the article you linked to was written about.

 

[Topazchen]

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Expect more of such articles as Shein continues besting competition

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"Along with Shein’s contribution to massive environmental damage, Shein fails to disclose their production process. Shein overworks their suppliers with a 75-hour week, violating local labor laws in China, with many of their workers subjected to extremely low wages and poor working conditions. Shein’s unethical labor practices allows them to turn a profit. Shoppers must be aware that purchasing Shein’s clothing means that the company profits by exploiting their workers.

Instead, there are plenty of clothing retailers and brands that practice sustainability, like Levi’s, Adidas and Reformation, that people should buy from. According to the Levi’s website, they are working toward 100% sustainably-sourced cotton and 100% renewable energy in owned and operated facilities by 2025. Levi’s has saved 4.2 billion liters of water since they introduced their Water<Less campaign in 2011 and use 75% sustainably sourced cotton.

Another great way that consumers can practice sustainability is by buying clothes from thrift stores. There are many neat thrift stores near Cal State Fullerton, like Buffalo Exchange, Goodwill and Uptown Cheapskate. There are also online thrift stores like ThredUp and

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. You can also contribute to sustainability by donating any clothes you don’t wear"