Chinese Economics Thread

xypher

Senior Member
Registered Member
I fear the CCP becoming too heavy-handed recently with some of its policies and seeing laws and regulations as panaceas for all its problems. That's the problem with a top-down approach, you can become myopic about things. It's better for China to try to first experiment with cities some of its rules and spread it out slowly than announcing them out of the blue haphazardly. A lot of times China's government works all for the best like the High-Speed Trains but a boon can just as easily become a mistake like the One-Child Policy.
I would not say that OCP was a mistake as a policy, I think the mistake was in being too slow in abolishing it later. It should have ceased to exist in the mid-00s when China was already on the path to prosperity and it was clear that it would have the ability to support a larger population. Without OCP the problems with pollution, soil degradation (due to excessive farming), food & energy self-sufficiency, etc. would have been way worse now as China's population would lie somewhere in the 1.7-1.8 billion region. Having a large population is good if you have enough capacity to support it (basic needs, education, jobs, etc.), otherwise, it would be something like India - a huge population that largely lives under the poverty line with low educational levels and labor participation.

That being said, I also don't like some of the new regulations, they seem counter-productive. What's the point of starting the actually needed educational reform with banning private tutoring while leaving the very reason why this tutoring became a thing? Start with the basics, then shut down private tutoring with prior notice later, when you get your new system running. The gaming regulations just don't make any sense - if you want to target gacha games, then focus on them, not with broad restrictions on online gaming as a whole. The entertainment industry reforms are also questionable - targeting the symptoms instead of roots again. The energy rationing just to hit climate targets are also dumb. However, there were good decisions as well - better IP regulations, tighter regulations of the internet sector (the US needs to learn from China there) and a crackdown on monopolies, finally addressing the 996 issue, movements in the deflation of the property bubble (proposition of property tax, not going to straight bailout Evergrande, the proposition to create incentives to disaggregate "elite" schools which skyrocket the land prices, etc.), slowdown of debt accumulation.
 

hashtagpls

Senior Member
Registered Member

Digital currencies are coming to Asia, just not the cryptocurrencies touted by moon boys.

Needless to say, this project will completely bypass the USD, with HK's massive capital markets and UAE's oil, a massive chunk of capital will be displaced from the USD, definitely hitting the black bag projects of the CIA, although surely the loss of Afghanistan and its poppy fields should take a hit out of the CIA's black bag budget.
 

MortyandRick

Senior Member
Registered Member
and if they don't what the rest of the world is gonna do about it?
You guesses it right: pay more for less goods. What choice do they have? Move to a place where there is more electricity? Where is that?

Nowhere? No problem we will start building coal plants. Who's gonna fund them and build them again after papa Xi said no one in China can offer finance or expertise?

This is the perfect time to do it. Because to be frank, the rest of the world sucks our dicks for their supplies. SEA and India have been fucked by COVID. Africa can kiss those coal plants goodbye. American power grid cannot sustain a 1mm snow fall. EU? Laughable.

Don't be fooled by industrial output calculated by monetary value. A Boeing jet may be worth as much as 10 billion rolls of toilet paper but the entire US cannot make 10 billion rolls of toilet paper.
Wasn’t there a report showing that over 80% of coal power plants were funded by western and japan private enterprises?

While China is constructing new power plants, that takes years to a decade. they need to bring in policies that will solve the energy crisis in the short and medium term. They need to get away from emission limits and allow more coal for now, prepare more LNG for the winter. Make sure that this power curbs do not continue and will not address industrial output. Especially coming out of pandemic lock downs! I am disappointed they didn’t handle this better. But then again I’m not in government so I don’t know the details well.
 

Orthan

Senior Member
It's the asset class where the majority of Chinese hold their wealth, not just the wealthy class.

It's far more important than equity market ever was.

It's probably the biggest source of revenue for many local governments.

It's the one sector that drives the biggest share of GDP growth.

It's not that only this administration realizes the danger and risks that real estate sector poses. It's been an issue for over a decade now. And, to be fair, the kind of real estate model that China practices (borrowing from Hong Kong) has been a huge factor in transforming Chinese urban landscape and infrastructure. But its negative effects have begun to overshadow its positives.

It's time to tackle the problem, before it's too late. The key is to have a comprehensive strategy to deal it.
Local government debt is also big.

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Im starting to think that a lot of economic activity in china is just driven by excess liquidity. Too much liquidity, debt, house prices, low-return infrastructure investment, etc.
 

Kaeshmiri

Junior Member
Registered Member
Local government debt is also big.

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Im starting to think that a lot of economic activity in china is just driven by excess liquidity. Too much liquidity, debt, house prices, low-return infrastructure investment, etc.
Literally no way for anyone to know "Hidden Debt" unless they inspected accounts themselves. This figure is vastly exaggerated and is an attempt to damage investor confidence in China.
Also this report is from Goldman Sachs the architect of the 2008 recession . Funny how they're giving advice to the Chinese govt on how to manage debt.
One estimate by S&P Global Ratings in 2019 put the size at 20 trillion yuan, while another that same year from Rhodium Group put it at 41.2 trillion to 51.7 trillion yuan
These orgs are throwing whatever figure comes to their mind and thats why their reports are irrelevant.

Debt is certainly a problem but not at the level which is being portrayed here.
 

Franklin

Captain
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Sorry, but annual emissions reduction targets should go. It is not rational to kill off the economy for "feel good" responses fr the World. Do you see the US or the EU shutting down production for climate change?

This is a trap set up for China. Unless I also see them shutting down production, this means that they (obviously) using climate change excuses to damage China
The power shortage in China has many reasons and the emissions targets is the lease of them. Its a combination of a booming economy and drier weather that is hampering hydro-electricity generation and not allowing electricity to be sold at market prices. Its the last one that is the most damaging. Coal prices went up more than 100% from a year earlier and China hasn't allowed the power companies to rais prices. Therefor power companies are rationing production to reduce losses. Whenever you sell something below market prices there will be shortages. Then there is the trade war with Australia which also has help to worsen the situation. Australian coal wouldn't prevent the power shortages but it would have helped.

As long as China doesn't allow electricity prices to reflect market conditions there will be shortages.
 
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