Chinese Economics Thread

siegecrossbow

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Bloomberg articles about the recent "common prosperity" policies of the chinese government.

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Also, bloomberg articles about the recent chinese state intervention in the tech/internet sector.

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What do you think of them?

Maybe they are good and maybe they are bad. One thing is for certain though — it is probably smarter policy than sitting on your butt and waiting for monetary bailout from your supposed arch nemesis while debt and inflation pressure is about to hit the breaking point.
 

ZeEa5KPul

Colonel
Registered Member
Maybe they are good and maybe they are bad.
(X) to doubt.

@Orthan, you've been here since 2010. In 2010 China's GDP was $6.1 trillion while in YOOL 2021 it's $16.6 trillion, that's a 2.75X growth. How does that make you feel, given that you've been waiting for at least a decade for China to collapse? Every day for ten years you've been telling yourself "today's the day" and it never happens.

But keep the faith alive and keep posting snide articles, that's sure to be what stops China. It's bound to happen for you any day now.;)
 

ChongqingHotPot92

Junior Member
Registered Member
100% absolutely and utterly wrong.

1. Historical nature: GLF and CR stopped happening. White supremacy did not stop happening.

2. Intent: GLF and CR were done with the intent of improving China as a whole. Slavery was done with the intent of enslaving others to enrich the white capitalist class.

3. End results: GLF and CR occurred during the Mao era where China's life expectancy and literacy doubled. Confederate slavery did not double the life expectancy or literacy of black people.

4. Contemporary governments: most countries outlawed slavery before the US while no more people died in Africa, India or any other developing country than China even during GLF.

5. Justice: white supremacists were never punished while gang of 4 was punished.

To equate one of the most evil systems to ever exist with the mistakes of a new government that still wasn't worse than its contemporaries is in itself evil.

This is just such an utterly wrong, incomparable, historically ignorant, biased and arguably evil point of view that I cannot believe it is even being entertained here.
Well my argument is that by apologizing for mistakes of GLF and CR, the CCP could become less vulnerable to those who try to delegitimize it by playing the original sins card. The reason why I compared GLF and CR to white supremacy in the West is because every country and regime has its own original sins, and these original sins make every country vulnerable to a certain extend. To your second point about the original intent of GLP and CR, while GLF indeed had to intent of improving China's rural economic development and industrial self-sufficiency, CR was simply a game played by Mao and his lieutenants to purge their political rivals through mob rule. Thus, CR was indeed sinister since Mao and his lieutenants intended to maximize their monopoly of political power at the expense of the CCP itself, the Chinese economy, education system, and national defense. Instead of willingly accept his own mistakes back in 1958 and let Liu Shaoqi and Deng take charge of China's economy during the 1950-1966 period, Mao launched the CR because he feared that his opponents were trying to delegitimize him due to the failure of GLF.

End Result: Mao built the PRC, but nearly destroyed it when his own colleagues simply had different economic development strategy from him after 1959.

Justice: The Gang of Four was indeed punished, but critical examinations of the CR is still not encouraged (if not censored) in Chinese universities and social science research institutes.

Contemporary Chinese Government Position: CR was indeed wrong and should not be repeated. However, research institutes outside of the Party are not allowed to study it for fear of creating domestic division. Hence, still count as semi-cover-up. Also, while right-wing scholars continue to have their arguments censored, Maoists (including those calling for another CR or abolishment of private properties) were never subjected the strict censorship that right-wing and liberal scholars are subjected to. Isn't this double standard with CCP characteristics?
 

ZeEa5KPul

Colonel
Registered Member
Contemporary Chinese Government Position: CR was indeed wrong and should not be repeated.
That's absolutely the correct position.
However, research institutes outside of the Party are not allowed to study it for fear of creating domestic division.
Rightly so. That also is absolutely the correct position. The Party is hitting it out of the park!
Also, while right-wing scholars continue to have their arguments censored
Exactly as they should be. I still remember laughing at the WSJ seethe when Unirule got shut down. Thanks for the pleasant trip down memory lane.
Isn't this double standard with CCP characteristics?
No, it isn't. People who would cause social division are silenced to prevent that division, just like cancer is best treated in its early stages to prevent it metastasizing. Otherwise, the result is America.
 

ChongqingHotPot92

Junior Member
Registered Member
That's absolutely the correct position.

Rightly so. That also is absolutely the correct position. The Party is hitting it out of the park!

Exactly as they should be. I still remember laughing at the WSJ seethe when Unirule got shut down. Thanks for the pleasant trip down memory lane.

No, it isn't. People who would cause social division are silenced to prevent that division, just like cancer is best treated in its early stages to prevent it metastasizing. Otherwise, the result is America.
Well, that's very paternalistic of the CCP, which can work itself out as long as people's economic welfare continue to improve. However, risk here is that if controversial histories are covered up, people will at some point find out and will become even more curious and eager to investigate them. If the economy were good, citizens would simply overlook these historical inconsistencies. But if there were widespread unemployment resulted from cyclical economic downturns, these historical inconsistencies could become a fuel added to the fire.

About double standard, don't neo-Maoists also cause social division by encouraging workers to go on strikes, a new CR to overthrow the current government, and a return to state-planning and communes?
 

ZeEa5KPul

Colonel
Registered Member
Well, that's very paternalistic of the CCP
Think of it whatever you like, it's the only way for a society to survive the natural and social pressures of the modern era. The alternative is to become a failing state. Show me an empirically superior system and I'll revise my view - your Cato Institute pop economics isn't going to cut it.
which can work itself out as long as people's economic welfare continue to improve.
That's just your theorizing and your theorizing doesn't hold any water. In reality, the Chinese system has strengthened and become more stable by every empirical measure.
However, risk here is that if controversial histories are covered up, people will at some point find out and will become even more curious and eager to investigate them.
How does this work in your imagination? Because there was an economic shock recently: the outbreak of COVID-19. Did people go, "Wow, 60 years ago the Chinese government grossly mismanaged the economy. Let's riot!" And saying the "risk is there" isn't some magic incantation that makes your argument correct - the risk is there that an asteroid hits Earth tomorrow and wipes out life on Earth. What is the probability of that risk?

That's to say nothing of your Western condescension. The Chinese people know about the GLF and the CR, they don't care because - and hold onto your seat because this is a doozy - Mao is dead.
But if there were widespread unemployment resulted from cyclical economic downturns, these historical inconsistencies could become a fuel added to the fire.
They could? In my version of the story they couldn't.
About double standard, don't neo-Maoists also cause social division by encouraging workers to go on strikes, a new CR to overthrow the current government, and a return to state-planning and communes?
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The truth you're trying to obscure is that all threats to stability are dealt with, no matter whence they originate.
 

ChongqingHotPot92

Junior Member
Registered Member
Think of it whatever you like, it's the only way for a society to survive the natural and social pressures of the modern era. The alternative is to become a failing state. Show me an empirically superior system and I'll revise my view - your Cato Institute pop economics isn't going to cut it.

That's just your theorizing and your theorizing doesn't hold any water. In reality, the Chinese system has strengthened and become more stable by every empirical measure.

How does this work in your imagination? Because there was an economic shock recently: the outbreak of COVID-19. Did people go, "Wow, 60 years ago the Chinese government grossly mismanaged the economy. Let's riot!" And saying the "risk is there" isn't some magic incantation that makes your argument correct - the risk is there that an asteroid hits Earth tomorrow and wipes out life on Earth. What is the probability of that risk?

That's to say nothing of your Western condescension. The Chinese people know about the GLF and the CR, they don't care because - and hold onto your seat because this is a doozy - Mao is dead.

They could? In my version of the story they couldn't.

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The truth you're trying to obscure is that all threats to stability are dealt with, no matter whence they originate.
Glad to know when the neo-Maoists or Marxists go too far, the CCP would go after them. That's more fair.

But how about this? Wearing CR-era PLA uniform today? That red-star green uniform without ranks and files was a symbol of the de-institutionalization and de-professionalization of the PLA, as well as near-destruction of China's nascent military industrial complex in the name of "equality" and class struggle. This mess caused by Mao and Lin Biao was directly related to the PLA's near-defeat during the 1979 Sino-Vietnamese War. When God-worshipping trumps rationality and expertise, that's what happens.
 

ZeEa5KPul

Colonel
Registered Member
Glad to know when the neo-Maoists or Marxists go too far, the CCP would go after them. That's more fair.

But how about this? Wearing CR-era PLA uniform today? That red-star green uniform without ranks and files was a symbol of the de-institutionalization and de-professionalization of the PLA, as well as near-destruction of China's nascent military industrial complex in the name of "equality" and class struggle. This mess caused by Mao and Lin Biao was directly related to the PLA's near-defeat during the 1979 Sino-Vietnamese War. When God-worshipping trumps rationality and expertise, that's what happens.
Mao is dead. Internalize that sentence.
 

PiSigma

"the engineer"
Glad to know when the neo-Maoists or Marxists go too far, the CCP would go after them. That's more fair.

But how about this? Wearing CR-era PLA uniform today? That red-star green uniform without ranks and files was a symbol of the de-institutionalization and de-professionalization of the PLA, as well as near-destruction of China's nascent military industrial complex in the name of "equality" and class struggle. This mess caused by Mao and Lin Biao was directly related to the PLA's near-defeat during the 1979 Sino-Vietnamese War. When God-worshipping trumps rationality and expertise, that's what happens.
Since u are seriously off topic, I'll only reply once.

The green army uniform came out before CR. And Mao is not really that responsible for CR, it was more the gang of four.

Near defeat in 79? Who told u that the viets?
 

LesAdieux

Junior Member
August imports increased 33.1%, 26.8% expected, previous 28.1%
August exports increased 25.6%, 17.1% expected, previous 19.3%,
these y/y numbers are particularly impressive because of the higher bases for comparison from last year.
the double whammy of covid outbreaks and floods has taken its toll on the economy, the economic data are soft across board for Q3 so far.
 
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