Chinese Economics Thread

[ChongqingHotPot92]

While some of these first generation private entrepreneurs were victims of Cultural Revolution, the others were red guards. Cultural Revolution was complicated. You often have both victims and victimizers in a single family. My family was victimized, and for many years we had former red guards coming and asking for our forgiveness. Some we forgave some we didn't (as a rule we refuse to forgive anyone with blood on their hands). What could an apology from the party do? Cultural Revolution was launched by Mao to wage war on the party and the government. Most people who later came into power were themselves victims of Cultural Revolution. Why do victims need apologies from other victims? Sometimes just moving on is the best solution.

Well, I will argue that apology is necessary because the Cultural Revolution, along with the GLF, is the PRC's original sin against its own people (it is worse when such crimes are committed against its own citizens than the others). Both are events more and more educated Chinese consider wrong. You can compared it to white supremacy in the United States. It is also an original sin because radical Maoists today still embrace Cultural Revolution, just like the far-right elements of the GOP still believe in the Confederacy and white supremacism. When folks criticize the good old USA, the first things they come up are white supremacism and remnants of slavery. Meanwhile, when folks seek to delegitimize the CCP today, the things they mention the most are Cultural Revolution and GLF (of course there's 1989, but that's another issue under a different political-economic context).

Since the CCP beginning with Deng Xiaoping has officially declared the Cultural Revolution as a mistake (but refuse to mention it in textbooks or compensate the victims), it is now time to go further and confront this inconvenient part of history. By apologizing, it is not just about saying sorry, but also building museums commemorating well-known victims (like Liu Shaoqi, Peng Dehuai, Bian Zhongyun, Tian Han, victims of cannidbolism in Wuxuan in Guangxi, purged military scientists, or even defense projects - like the WS-6 engine - ruined, etc.) of mob rule, as well as maybe a memorial in Henan (say Xinyang, the largest epicenter of famine in 1959) for the GLF. Textbook should talk about what led to the failures of GLF and tragedies of Cultural Revolution, so student grow being aware of what is to be avoided. Just think about the African American museums in the United States. They will not eliminate white supremacism, just like radical Maoists will not be eliminated. However, these museums teach citizens to reflect on their country's original sins and vulnerabilities, and encourage informed debates.

 

[DarkStar]

Well, I will argue that apology is necessary because the Cultural Revolution, along with the GLF, is the PRC's original sin against its own people (it is worse when such crimes are committed against its own citizens than the others). Both are events more and more educated Chinese consider wrong. You can compared it to white supremacy in the United States. It is also an original sin because radical Maoists today still embrace Cultural Revolution

This is the stupidest shit i've ever heard.
Apologise for what? Mistakes were made, it was not an intentional crime on par with white supremacism or japan's war crimes, any more than BLM and Woke-ism is to blame for the race riots going on in the United States, and asking for an apology speaks volumes about your own background of the kabuki of performative apologism that does nothing materially to better the lives of Chinese, like a white anglo in justin trudeau 'apologising' for the massacres against native americans and yet doing nothing to help native americans today whilst living off the fat of the land and being beneficiaries of the extermination of native americans.

Duke of Qin but it best wrt to the corruption of anglo performative virtue signalling over material gains and changes

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1434311927203827715

Secondly, the performative act of apologise whilst doing nothing material is a hallmark of white privilege because no-one has the power to force these white apologists and the social climbing asians who ape white apologism, to answer for the crimes of their ancestors.

EDIT:
The only reason why someone like you would want an 'apology' is because you want a divided Chinese society that would better serve anglo interests, much like how the anglo americans divided taiwanese society between benshengren and waishengren

 

[KenC]

The only reason why someone like you would want an 'apology' is because you want a divided Chinese society that would better serve anglo interests, much like how the anglo americans divided taiwanese society between benshengren and waishengren

Can't agree more than that. One thing will lead another. Next it will be TAM, and so on.
But, then we can start also with UK for selling opium under the gun point and all those unequal treaties that cause so much miseries.

 

[DarkStar]

Can't agree more than that. One thing will lead another. Next it will be TAM, and so on.
But, then we can start also with UK for selling opium under the gun point and all those unequal treaties that cause so much miseries.

Yep, if the Five Eyes are intent on their 'all of society' race war against China, then China should answer in kind as the British did back then, locking out and sanctioning companies that want to profit from China whilst trashing China at the same time, looking at you, Australia.

This is really why the anglos are so hysterical about the BRI; a mongol empire style continent spanning free trade area acting as a market for Chinese products would quickly isolate the anglos.

 

[OppositeDay]

Well, I will argue that apology is necessary because the Cultural Revolution, along with the GLF, is the PRC's original sin against its own people (it is worse when such crimes are committed against its own citizens than the others). Both are events more and more educated Chinese consider wrong. You can compared it to white supremacy in the United States. It is also an original sin because radical Maoists today still embrace Cultural Revolution, just like the far-right elements of the GOP still believe in the Confederacy and white supremacism. When folks criticize the good old USA, the first things they come up are white supremacism and remnants of slavery. Meanwhile, when folks seek to delegitimize the CCP today, the things they mention the most are Cultural Revolution and GLF (of course there's 1989, but that's another issue under a different political-economic context).

Since the CCP beginning with Deng Xiaoping has officially declared the Cultural Revolution as a mistake (but refuse to mention it in textbooks or compensate the victims), it is now time to go further and confront this inconvenient part of history. By apologizing, it is not just about saying sorry, but also building museums commemorating well-known victims (like Liu Shaoqi, Peng Dehuai, Bian Zhongyun, Tian Han, victims of cannidbolism in Wuxuan in Guangxi, purged military scientists, or even defense projects - like the WS-6 engine - ruined, etc.) of mob rule, as well as maybe a memorial in Henan (say Xinyang, the largest epicenter of famine in 1959) for the GLF. Textbook should talk about what led to the failures of GLF and tragedies of Cultural Revolution, so student grow being aware of what is to be avoided. Just think about the African American museums in the United States. They will not eliminate white supremacism, just like radical Maoists will not be eliminated. However, these museums teach citizens to reflect on their country's original sins and vulnerabilities, and encourage informed debates.

Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution were one-off historical events that, unlikely white supremacy, has ended and were not responsible for any lasting systematic inequality. Your idea that those two were events “more and more educated Chinese considered wrong” is just ludicrous. I have never met any educated Chinese who doesn’t consider those two wrong.

My advice is to have some original thoughts and stop trying to slavishly apply whatever trendiest Western idea to the Chinese context.

 

[Bellum_Romanum]

Well, I will argue that apology is necessary because the Cultural Revolution, along with the GLF, is the PRC's original sin against its own people (it is worse when such crimes are committed against its own citizens than the others). Both are events more and more educated Chinese consider wrong. You can compared it to white supremacy in the United States. It is also an original sin because radical Maoists today still embrace Cultural Revolution, just like the far-right elements of the GOP still believe in the Confederacy and white supremacism. When folks criticize the good old USA, the first things they come up are white supremacism and remnants of slavery. Meanwhile, when folks seek to delegitimize the CCP today, the things they mention the most are Cultural Revolution and GLF (of course there's 1989, but that's another issue under a different political-economic context).

Since the CCP beginning with Deng Xiaoping has officially declared the Cultural Revolution as a mistake (but refuse to mention it in textbooks or compensate the victims), it is now time to go further and confront this inconvenient part of history. By apologizing, it is not just about saying sorry, but also building museums commemorating well-known victims (like Liu Shaoqi, Peng Dehuai, Bian Zhongyun, Tian Han, victims of cannidbolism in Wuxuan in Guangxi, purged military scientists, or even defense projects - like the WS-6 engine - ruined, etc.) of mob rule, as well as maybe a memorial in Henan (say Xinyang, the largest epicenter of famine in 1959) for the GLF. Textbook should talk about what led to the failures of GLF and tragedies of Cultural Revolution, so student grow being aware of what is to be avoided. Just think about the African American museums in the United States. They will not eliminate white supremacism, just like radical Maoists will not be eliminated. However, these museums teach citizens to reflect on their country's original sins and vulnerabilities, and encourage informed debates.

Can you name me an example of where has these so called apologies led to an actual real changes in the U.S. and elsewhere in Europe? The arguments and or issues of slavery, reparations, and confederacy are still raw in many areas and people in the U.S. and the current social frictions in the U.S. have it's origins from the issues previously cited, not to mention that the large swathe of white majority are getting anxious due to the fact that their ethnic group will become a minority in 2045-2050 which are fuelling extreme polarization.

What would the "apology" or the party going on some kind of the apology tour in China going to do for the country other than a possible creation of endless debate and actually creating a situation where it'll inevitably pit Chinese people against each other which will then contribute a negative deterioration of the country's unity and cohesion?

China need not follow every American or western countries political theatrics and pretend that if China somehow allow to wallow in self pity or to be constantly reminded of it's supposed nefarious, nebulous past that all will be okay and it'll spearhead some kind of what?

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Well, I will argue that apology is necessary because the Cultural Revolution, along with the GLF, is the PRC's original sin against its own people (it is worse when such crimes are committed against its own citizens than the others). Both are events more and more educated Chinese consider wrong. You can compared it to white supremacy in the United States. It is also an original sin because radical Maoists today still embrace Cultural Revolution, just like the far-right elements of the GOP still believe in the Confederacy and white supremacism. When folks criticize the good old USA, the first things they come up are white supremacism and remnants of slavery. Meanwhile, when folks seek to delegitimize the CCP today, the things they mention the most are Cultural Revolution and GLF (of course there's 1989, but that's another issue under a different political-economic context).

Since the CCP beginning with Deng Xiaoping has officially declared the Cultural Revolution as a mistake (but refuse to mention it in textbooks or compensate the victims), it is now time to go further and confront this inconvenient part of history. By apologizing, it is not just about saying sorry, but also building museums commemorating well-known victims (like Liu Shaoqi, Peng Dehuai, Bian Zhongyun, Tian Han, victims of cannidbolism in Wuxuan in Guangxi, purged military scientists, or even defense projects - like the WS-6 engine - ruined, etc.) of mob rule, as well as maybe a memorial in Henan (say Xinyang, the largest epicenter of famine in 1959) for the GLF. Textbook should talk about what led to the failures of GLF and tragedies of Cultural Revolution, so student grow being aware of what is to be avoided. Just think about the African American museums in the United States. They will not eliminate white supremacism, just like radical Maoists will not be eliminated. However, these museums teach citizens to reflect on their country's original sins and vulnerabilities, and encourage informed debates.

100% absolutely and utterly wrong.

1. Historical nature: GLF and CR stopped happening. White supremacy did not stop happening.

2. Intent: GLF and CR were done with the intent of improving China as a whole. Slavery was done with the intent of enslaving others to enrich the white capitalist class.

3. End results: GLF and CR occurred during the Mao era where China's life expectancy and literacy doubled. Confederate slavery did not double the life expectancy or literacy of black people.

4. Contemporary governments: most countries outlawed slavery before the US while no more people died in Africa, India or any other developing country than China even during GLF.

5. Justice: white supremacists were never punished while gang of 4 was punished.

To equate one of the most evil systems to ever exist with the mistakes of a new government that still wasn't worse than its contemporaries is in itself evil.

This is just such an utterly wrong, incomparable, historically ignorant, biased and arguably evil point of view that I cannot believe it is even being entertained here.

 

[Orthan]

Bloomberg articles about the recent "common prosperity" policies of the chinese government.

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Also, bloomberg articles about the recent chinese state intervention in the tech/internet sector.

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What do you think of them?

 

[siegecrossbow]

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One has to ask why does the West care? They want to see China's tech sector destroyed so it isn't a threat to the West. The one commonality is it goes against the culture of unrestricted accumulation of wealth that is indicative of the Western financial system. If Australia can find other customers for their products, why are they still whining about China? Because that culture says they're suppose have that too. Greedy people want it all. They aren't content with what they just have. They always want more. And it hurts them even more that they had it and then lost it. They also don't understand nature at work that when they sanction China for human rights violations, China has the right to sanction them back. They think they're doing it for the human rights god, entities higher themselves so they lie to themselves it's not all about what they want. People tend not to obey when they admit it's all about what they want.

What choice do rich Chinese have? With the help of the West, Westerners shun anything Chinese. Chinese billionaires just can't leave for the West. They made their money in China. They don't make all their money in the West. Set up their business in another country to escape the clutches of Beijing and they'll have no supply chain to exploit cheap labor to make all the billions they have now. Are they as dumb as Hong Kongers who think they can make another Hong Kong in other countries that let them in to escape China when they cut themselves off from China that only makes Hong Kong... Hong Kong? Then they'll have to deal with the racist paranoia of the West where they won't give them a chance in the first place. Chinese celebrities... you ain't celebrities in the West meaning no more fame and fortune for you if they think it'll be better in the West. Ironic that the West works to isolate China and yet it has given Beijing all the more this power. Of course the West wants to see that because all the more they'll see their culture is superior that Chinese rich and famous will throw it all away because they think living the West is better. Have we seen it happen? Like we haven't seen the 100 million Chinese that travel overseas in a year ask for asylum to escape China. It wouldn't escape the Western media for propaganda if it did happen.

It's unheard of in the West where the government tells corporations they should give their wealth to charity and then they do it. More over if it works in China, the West is going to feel the pressure. The wealth in the US is only more and more in the possession of the ever shrinking few. "Common Prosperity" is a foreign concept to them. It's in by the nature of that culture, they want to see that happen because it's a sign of success. China is everything they say the world should not follow yet China is the second most powerful country in the world and has No. 1, the US, worried about their position. That's why the Western criticism of something they want to do themselves to China but the difference is Beijing isn't looking out to destroy China. The West doesn't care about the poor in China except it makes them look good saying it. They want to replicate what they've done to their own countries on China except it's not a few Chinese accumulating all of China's wealth. It's the West taking China's wealth. They think it's their right to make money off the Chinese while denying it the other way around. You notice it always comes back around to slavery. Why are they afraid of the rise of Chinese technology? Because the goal of the West is to have everyone in the world have to pay them licensing fees in order to use that technology for themselves. The West won't have to manufacture anything anymore to sell. They get the rest of the world to do it and then they just sit back and watch their banks accounts fill up with money from the world having to pay licensing fees in using their technology. China is going to ruin that monopolistic plan.

A lot of them are stakeholders in Chinese tech companies. To say that they want all Chinese companies to fail is an exaggeration.

 

[ZeEa5KPul]

Bloomberg articles about the recent "common prosperity" policies of the chinese government.

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Also, bloomberg articles about the recent chinese state intervention in the tech/internet sector.

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What do you think of them?

We think they're garbage and you posted them in bad faith to troll. Ultimately, it's an own goal on your part because the more we see the kind of people who write for Bloomberg seething, the surer we are that China is on the right path.

Any other questions?